1
00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,039
I had ambitions to set out and find...

2
00:00:36,119 --> 00:00:38,280
like an odyssey of going home somewhere.

3
00:00:38,359 --> 00:00:42,920
I set out to find this home|that I'd left a while back...

4
00:00:43,119 --> 00:00:47,079
and I couldn't remember exactly|where it was, but I was on my way there.

5
00:00:47,359 --> 00:00:52,079
And encountering what I encountered|on the way, was how I envisioned it all.

6
00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,520
I didn't really have any ambition at all.

7
00:00:54,719 --> 00:00:57,320
I was born very far|from where I'm supposed to be...

8
00:00:57,399 --> 00:00:59,280
and so I'm on my way home, you know.

9
00:01:10,719 --> 00:01:13,879
<i>Once upon a time you dressed so fine</i>

10
00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,159
<i>You threw the bums a dime in your prime</i>

11
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:20,760
<i>Didn't you?</i>

12
00:01:21,519 --> 00:01:25,879
<i>People call and say,</i>|<i>"Beware, doll, you're bound to fall"</i>

13
00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:30,400
<i>You thought they were all kidding you</i>

14
00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:38,000
<i>You used to laugh about</i>

15
00:01:39,799 --> 00:01:43,000
<i>Everybody that was hanging out</i>

16
00:01:44,239 --> 00:01:48,159
<i>Now you don't talk too loud</i>

17
00:01:49,719 --> 00:01:53,719
<i>Now you don't seem so proud</i>

18
00:01:54,239 --> 00:01:57,159
<i>About having to be scrounging around</i>

19
00:01:57,239 --> 00:02:01,280
<i>For your next meal</i>

20
00:02:03,799 --> 00:02:06,359
<i>How does it feel</i>

21
00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:11,560
<i>How does it feel</i>

22
00:02:13,319 --> 00:02:16,879
<i>To be on your own</i>

23
00:02:18,759 --> 00:02:22,360
<i>With no direction home</i>

24
00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,759
<i>Like a complete unknown</i>

25
00:02:29,199 --> 00:02:32,840
<i>Like a rolling stone?</i>

26
00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:56,360
<i>Time... You can do a lot of things</i>|<i>that seem to make time stand still...</i>

27
00:02:56,479 --> 00:02:58,879
<i>but of course, you know,</i>|<i>no one can do that.</i>

28
00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:14,639
<i>Maybe when I was about 10,</i>|<i>I started playing the guitar.</i>

29
00:03:14,759 --> 00:03:18,520
<i>I found a guitar in the house</i>|<i>that my father bought, actually.</i>

30
00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,280
<i>I found something else in there.</i>|<i>This kind of mystical overtones.</i>

31
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,280
<i>There was a great big mahogany radio.</i>

32
00:03:25,439 --> 00:03:28,680
<i>It had a 78 turntable</i>|<i>when you opened up the top.</i>

33
00:03:29,199 --> 00:03:31,000
<i>And I opened it up one day...</i>

34
00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,639
<i>and there was a record on,</i>|<i>a country record...</i>

35
00:03:33,759 --> 00:03:36,240
<i>this song called</i>|Drifting Too Far From Shore.

36
00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,479
The sound of the record made me feel|like I was somebody else...

37
00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,479
and that...

38
00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,560
you know, I was maybe not even|born to the right parents, or something.

39
00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:11,639
<i>It looked like any other town</i>|<i>out of the '40s or '50s.</i>

40
00:04:11,759 --> 00:04:14,319
<i>Just some rural town.</i>|<i>It was on the way to nowhere.</i>

41
00:04:14,439 --> 00:04:16,240
<i>And you probably couldn't find it on a map.</i>

42
00:04:23,759 --> 00:04:26,480
<i>Maybe three blocks one way,</i>|<i>and maybe three blocks the other way...</i>

43
00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,560
<i>and that was like a main street</i>|<i>where all the department stores were...</i>

44
00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:33,079
<i>the drugstores, the...</i>|<i>That's about it, you know.</i>

45
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,240
<i>What happens to a town</i>|<i>after the livelihood is gone?</i>

46
00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,040
<i>All right, it just sort of decays</i>|<i>and blows away, doesn't it?</i>

47
00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:44,920
<i>That's the way it goes.</i>

48
00:04:46,319 --> 00:04:48,040
<i>Most of the land was either farmland...</i>

49
00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,240
<i>or just completely scavenged</i>|<i>by the mining companies.</i>

50
00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,319
<i>Very hot in the summertime...</i>

51
00:04:53,439 --> 00:04:55,800
in the winter,|it was just rightly cold, you know.

52
00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,079
All winter, it was just, I mean...

53
00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,439
We didn't have the clothes they have now...

54
00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,800
so I mean, you just wore|two or three shirts at a time.

55
00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:03,839
Slept in your clothes.

56
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,319
<i>The pit was on the outer limits of the town.</i>|<i>That's where everybody worked.</i>

57
00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:14,240
<i>You couldn't be a rebel.</i>|<i>It was so cold that you couldn't be bad.</i>

58
00:05:14,319 --> 00:05:16,839
<i>The weather equalizes everything</i>|<i>very quickly.</i>

59
00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,319
<i>And nobody was gonna really pull a stickup.</i>

60
00:05:19,439 --> 00:05:22,360
There really wasn't any philosophy,|any idiom...

61
00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:26,519
any ideology to really go against.

62
00:05:28,759 --> 00:05:32,040
<i>My father and his brothers,</i>|<i>they had an electrical store.</i>

63
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,600
<i>'Bout the first job I ever had</i>|<i>was sweeping up the store...</i>

64
00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,639
and I was supposed to learn...

65
00:05:36,759 --> 00:05:40,040
the discipline of hard work or something,|you know...

66
00:05:40,199 --> 00:05:43,240
and the merits of employment.

67
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:52,079
<i>Circuses came through.</i>

68
00:05:52,199 --> 00:05:55,000
<i>There were tent shows</i>|<i>at the carny midways.</i>

69
00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:56,360
<i>And they had barkers.</i>

70
00:05:56,439 --> 00:05:57,959
Got a horse with two heads!

71
00:05:58,079 --> 00:06:00,560
Got a chicken in there with a man's face!

72
00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:02,439
Come see the girl-boy!

73
00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:04,319
<i>It was just more rural back then.</i>

74
00:06:04,399 --> 00:06:07,759
<i>That's what people did.</i>|<i>You could see guys in blackface.</i>;

75
00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,439
George Washington in blackface...

76
00:06:11,759 --> 00:06:14,399
or Napoleon wearing blackface.

77
00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,680
Like, weird Shakespearean things.

78
00:06:16,759 --> 00:06:18,920
Stuff that didn't really make any sense|at the time.

79
00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,000
<i>And people had other jobs</i>|<i>in the carny team.</i>

80
00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:23,680
<i>I saw somebody putting makeup on...</i>

81
00:06:23,759 --> 00:06:26,040
<i>getting back from running</i>|<i>the Ferris wheel once.</i>

82
00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:27,879
And I thought that was pretty interesting.

83
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,560
Guy's got, you know... He does two things,|you know, or something like that.

84
00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:36,199
<i>I've got a song here that I'd like to do</i>|<i>that's been awful kind to me and the boys.</i>

85
00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:37,360
<i>It's a tune called.</i>;

86
00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:39,759
Cold Cold Heart.

87
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,000
<i>We'd have to listen late at night</i>|<i>for other stations to come in...</i>

88
00:07:26,079 --> 00:07:29,480
<i>from other parts of the country,</i>|<i>places that were far away.</i>

89
00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:32,879
<i>Fifty-thousand watt stations</i>|<i>coming out through the atmosphere.</i>

90
00:07:36,879 --> 00:07:38,000
<i>Johnnie Ray.</i>;

91
00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,439
<i>He had some kind of strange incantation</i>|<i>in his voice...</i>

92
00:07:41,519 --> 00:07:43,079
<i>like he'd been voodooed...</i>

93
00:07:43,199 --> 00:07:45,720
and he cried, kind of, when he sang.

94
00:07:57,519 --> 00:07:59,040
<i>It's Grand Ole Opry time.</i>

95
00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,319
<i>Another big folk music show,</i>|<i>starring Webb Pierce.</i>

96
00:08:42,039 --> 00:08:43,679
<i>It was the sound that got to me.</i>

97
00:08:43,759 --> 00:08:45,480
It wasn't who it was, or...

98
00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:47,480
It was the sound of it.

99
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,519
<i>This is our town, Hibbing, Minnesota, USA.</i>

100
00:08:51,600 --> 00:08:54,720
<i>I began listening to the radio,</i>|<i>I began to get bored being there.</i>

101
00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:57,639
I thought about going to military school...

102
00:08:57,759 --> 00:09:01,279
but the military school|that I envisioned myself going to...

103
00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,879
I couldn't get in...

104
00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:05,159
which was West Point.

105
00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,159
You know, I could always envision myself|dying in some heroic battle somewhere.

106
00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,399
So I mean, maybe that era...

107
00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:15,240
has gone.

108
00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,399
<i>First time I heard rock 'n' roll</i>|<i>on the radio...</i>

109
00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,279
<i>I felt it was pretty similar to the</i>|<i>country music which I'd been listening to.</i>

110
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,080
I formed a couple of groups, growing up,|and we rehearsed and played...

111
00:10:03,159 --> 00:10:06,360
where we could play.|There wasn't much opportunity...

112
00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:08,200
to really break out of that area.

113
00:10:08,279 --> 00:10:11,440
<i>Robert was in my class, and that was</i>|<i>the era that they had the talent show.</i>

114
00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:14,759
<i>Robert, of course, he was up on stage.</i>

115
00:10:20,519 --> 00:10:24,039
<i>His concert began,</i>|<i>and it was quite surprising.</i>

116
00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,440
<i>I saw Robert stand there at the piano...</i>

117
00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,240
<i>and my guess is</i>|<i>that he was trying to destroy it.</i>

118
00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:33,519
<i>He was pumping on the thing.</i>|<i>It was a most unusual thing to observe.</i>

119
00:10:33,879 --> 00:10:36,240
<i>The principal pulled the curtain on him.</i>

120
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:40,120
<i>He said to me, "I didn't think</i>|<i>that music was suitable for the audience...</i>

121
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:41,679
<i>"so I pulled the curtain."</i>

122
00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,759
Nobody liked country music,|or rock 'n' roll, or rhythm and blues.

123
00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,399
<i>That kind of music wasn't</i>|<i>what was happening up there.</i>

124
00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,879
<i>The music that was popular was</i>|How Much is that Doggie in the Window?

125
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,519
<i>That wasn't our reality.</i>|<i>Our reality was bleak to begin with.</i>

126
00:11:01,639 --> 00:11:04,399
<i>Our reality was fear that at any moment...</i>

127
00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,159
<i>this black cloud would explode,</i>|<i>where everybody would be dead.</i>

128
00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:14,159
<i>They would show you in school,</i>|<i>how to dive for cover under your desk.</i>

129
00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:18,200
<i>We grew up with all that,</i>|<i>so it created a sense of paranoia...</i>

130
00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,279
that, I don't know, was probably unforeseen.

131
00:11:27,639 --> 00:11:31,320
<i>In May, 1959,</i>|<i>I recorded a tape for Bob Zimmerman.</i>

132
00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,639
Bob was real excited to learn|I had a tape recorder...

133
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:37,360
and he wanted to know|what he sounded like.

134
00:11:40,279 --> 00:11:42,799
<i>I really can't say</i>|<i>if the girls took a liking to me or not...</i>

135
00:11:42,919 --> 00:11:44,799
<i>from playing around town.</i>

136
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,600
<i>The first girl that ever took a liking to me,</i>|<i>her name was Gloria Story.</i>

137
00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,120
<i>Gloria Story, I mean,</i>|<i>that was her real name.</i>

138
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:54,320
<i>Second girlfriend was named Echo.</i>|<i>Now, that's pretty strange.</i>

139
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,440
<i>I've never met anybody named Echo.</i>

140
00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,919
<i>I serenaded her underneath the ladder</i>|<i>that went up to her window.</i>

141
00:12:04,039 --> 00:12:07,639
And both these girls, by the way,|brought out the poet in me.

142
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:09,960
<i>Long after we have gone...</i>

143
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,519
<i>while the flesh of our beginning has not yet</i>|<i>traveled the light years into distance...</i>

144
00:12:15,159 --> 00:12:18,960
<i>it will disappear into the blackness</i>|<i>of the space from which we came...</i>

145
00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:23,080
<i>destroyed as we began,</i>|<i>in a burst of gas and fire.</i>

146
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,399
<i>James Dean, Brando,</i> The Wild One.

147
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,559
It didn't kill all the entire past.

148
00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,720
It's not like they just appeared|and there's a new scene happening now.

149
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,120
Time, you know, time kind of|obliterated the past...

150
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,840
that was around when I was growing up.

151
00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:44,759
Just time and progress, really.

152
00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,159
<i>How does it feel</i>

153
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:53,000
<i>Oh, how does it feel</i>

154
00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,759
<i>To be on your own</i>

155
00:12:59,840 --> 00:13:03,600
<i>With no direction home</i>

156
00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:08,840
<i>Like a complete unknown</i>

157
00:13:10,159 --> 00:13:13,799
<i>Like a rolling stone?</i>

158
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:15,919
He's just changed altogether.

159
00:14:16,039 --> 00:14:19,240
He's changed from what he was.|He's not the same as what he was at first.

160
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,480
- You don't even recognize him.|- No.

161
00:14:21,559 --> 00:14:24,559
About a year ago,|I saw him here in Sheffield at the City Hall...

162
00:14:24,679 --> 00:14:26,320
and I thought he was magnificent.

163
00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:28,759
You know, I thought|he just couldn't improve if he tried.

164
00:14:28,879 --> 00:14:30,320
Then the next thing that happened was...

165
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,519
he went really commercial,|with this backing group.

166
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,879
And I didn't like that very much.

167
00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:36,679
I don't know what he's trying to do.

168
00:14:36,799 --> 00:14:40,039
I think he's conceding, you know,|to some sort of popular taste.

169
00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:43,320
I think it's a bad thing.|I think he's prostituting himself.

170
00:14:48,879 --> 00:14:53,399
I don't think the spirit of the Dylan songs|has been portrayed with this...

171
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,799
with this incredibly corny group behind him.

172
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,600
I like his earlier records|as on his <i>Freewheelin'</i> LPs, etcetera...

173
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,799
but this, I just can't stick.

174
00:15:07,919 --> 00:15:09,279
I found it rather boring.

175
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,879
I found there was too much improvising|on his wretched harmonica.

176
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,679
And he tended to lose the rhythm|on his guitar altogether at times.

177
00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:18,080
<i>Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man,</i>|<i>play a song for me</i>

178
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:22,120
<i>Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man,</i>|<i>play a song for me</i>

179
00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:26,320
<i>I'm not sleepy</i>|<i>and there is no place I'm going to</i>

180
00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:33,480
<i>Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man,</i>|<i>play a song for me</i>

181
00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:38,159
<i>In the jingle jangle morning</i>|<i>I'll come following you</i>

182
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:45,200
<i>Though I know that evening's empire</i>

183
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:47,600
<i>Has returned into sand</i>

184
00:15:47,759 --> 00:15:49,799
<i>Vanished from my hand</i>

185
00:15:49,879 --> 00:15:54,279
<i>Left me blindly here to stand</i>|<i>but still not sleeping</i>

186
00:15:56,919 --> 00:16:01,480
<i>My weariness amazes me</i>|<i>I'm branded on my feet</i>

187
00:16:01,679 --> 00:16:03,679
<i>I have no one to meet</i>

188
00:16:03,759 --> 00:16:07,559
<i>And the ancient empty street's</i>|<i>too dead for dreaming</i>

189
00:16:10,799 --> 00:16:15,120
<i>Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man,</i>|<i>play a song for me</i>

190
00:16:15,279 --> 00:16:19,759
<i>I'm not sleepy</i>|<i>and there is no place I'm going to</i>

191
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,639
<i>Hey, Mr. Tambourine Man,</i>|<i>play a song for me</i>

192
00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:31,159
<i>In the jingle jangle morning</i>|<i>I'll come following you</i>

193
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,759
<i>Got out of high school</i>|<i>and left the very next day.</i>

194
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:49,200
<i>I'd gone as far as I could</i>|<i>in my particular environment.</i>

195
00:16:49,519 --> 00:16:51,600
I was gonna try to join some other band.

196
00:17:08,519 --> 00:17:12,119
<i>There was only one guy that ever</i>|<i>came out of there, and he was out of Fargo.</i>

197
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,279
<i>And I'd actually gone there to play with him.</i>|<i>He had a regional hit called</i> Suzie Baby.

198
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,000
<i>At that point,</i>|<i>I was just playing triplets on the piano.</i>

199
00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:22,920
I didn't have my own piano,|so they weren't gonna buy a piano.

200
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,640
But I did play some shows with them.

201
00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:28,279
Nothing much came of it.

202
00:17:31,759 --> 00:17:35,680
<i>He would let people know</i>|<i>that he was maybe Bobby Vee.</i>

203
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,279
<i>Bob told everyone including his, like,</i>|<i>cousins and relatives...</i>

204
00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:41,359
that, you know, he was Bobby Vee.

205
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,000
And I guess he liked that recognition|of being famous.

206
00:17:45,079 --> 00:17:46,440
'Cause people looked at him, and say:

207
00:17:46,519 --> 00:17:48,880
"Hey, that's a pretty good song|you got out, Bobby Vee."

208
00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:51,240
I was a musical expeditionary.

209
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,599
I had no past, really, to speak of,|nothing to go back to, nobody to lean on.

210
00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,079
<i>I came down to Minneapolis.</i>|<i>I didn't go to classes.</i>

211
00:18:00,319 --> 00:18:01,759
I was enrolled...

212
00:18:02,599 --> 00:18:06,519
but I didn't go to classes.

213
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:09,839
I just didn't feel like it.

214
00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:14,079
<i>We were singing and playing all night.</i>|<i>Sleeping most of, you know, the morning.</i>

215
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,440
<i>I didn't really have any time for studying.</i>

216
00:18:17,839 --> 00:18:19,480
<i>"Praised be man</i>

217
00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,599
<i>"He is existing in milk, and living in lilies</i>

218
00:18:23,079 --> 00:18:26,799
<i>"And his violin music</i>|<i>takes place in milk and creamy emptiness</i>

219
00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:31,119
<i>"Praised be the unfolded inside petal</i>|<i>flesh of tend'rest thought</i>

220
00:18:31,599 --> 00:18:34,440
<i>"Praised be delusion; the ripple</i>

221
00:18:34,599 --> 00:18:36,839
<i>"Praised be the Holy Ocean of Eternity</i>

222
00:18:37,039 --> 00:18:40,960
<i>"Praised be I, writing,</i>|<i>dead already, and dead again"</i>

223
00:18:42,799 --> 00:18:45,799
<i>I fell into that atmosphere</i>|<i>of everything Kerouac was saying...</i>

224
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,920
<i>about the world being completely mad.</i>

225
00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:51,559
And the only people for him|that were interesting...

226
00:18:52,319 --> 00:18:56,720
were the mad people, the mad ones,|the ones who were, you know, mad to live...

227
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,599
and mad to talk, mad to be saved,|desirous of everything at the same time...

228
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,319
the ones who never yawn,|all those mad ones.

229
00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,720
And I felt like I fit right into that bunch.

230
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,720
<i>I had heard folk music</i>|<i>before leaving the Iron Range.</i>

231
00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:07,240
<i>I'd heard John Jacob Niles somewhere,</i>|<i>strangely enough.</i>

232
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:12,160
I don't know, folk music|was delivering me something, you know...

233
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:17,519
which was the way I always felt about life,|you know, and people...

234
00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:22,400
and, you know, institutions, and ideology...

235
00:20:23,759 --> 00:20:26,839
and it was just,|you know, uncovering it all.

236
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,519
<i>She played that upstroke-downstroke</i>|<i>kind of rhythm...</i>

237
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,160
<i>where you don't need the drum.</i>|<i>It's kind of like a Tex-Mex rhythm.</i>

238
00:21:37,279 --> 00:21:38,559
I heard that rhythm...

239
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:41,839
and I thought, well, I could use|that rhythm for all kinds of things.

240
00:21:42,599 --> 00:21:45,160
<i>I don't even remember, you know,</i>|<i>buying any records.</i>

241
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,759
<i>If went into the booth...</i>|<i>I had a very agile mind.</i>

242
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:53,160
<br>..I could learn a song|by maybe hearing it once or twice.

243
00:22:00,759 --> 00:22:04,200
<i>I traded my electric equipment</i>|<i>for an acoustic guitar.</i>

244
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,559
Started playing almost immediately.

245
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,400
There he is, down at the end of the bar.|Dylan! How are you?

246
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,880
Dylan Thomas, and he's looking shocked.

247
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:15,119
Out in Minnesota...

248
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,079
there was a young man who was inspired...

249
00:22:20,559 --> 00:22:22,640
to change his name to Dylan...

250
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,599
because of the poet Dylan Thomas.

251
00:22:26,319 --> 00:22:27,880
"Piety sings

252
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,680
"Innocence sweetens my last black breath

253
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,160
"Modesty hides my thighs in her wings

254
00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,440
"And all the deadly virtues

255
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,759
"plague my death!"

256
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:51,240
<i>Why it became that particular name,</i>|<i>I really can't say.</i>

257
00:22:52,279 --> 00:22:54,880
There was some intimation|that maybe he was changing his name...

258
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:56,200
'cause of a racial thing.

259
00:22:57,039 --> 00:22:59,119
'Cause, I later found out...

260
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,119
that Minneapolis had a fairly big history|of being anti-Semitic...

261
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:04,279
which I wasn't aware of at all.

262
00:23:04,559 --> 00:23:06,160
<i>The name just popped into my head</i>|<i>one day.</i>

263
00:23:06,279 --> 00:23:09,000
<i>But it didn't really happen</i>|<i>any of the ways that I've read about it.</i>

264
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,039
I mean, I just don't feel like I had had a|past...

265
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,279
and, you know,|I couldn't relate to anything...

266
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,519
other than what I was doing|at the present time...

267
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,400
and I don't, you know...

268
00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:24,200
Didn't matter to me what I said,|you know. It still doesn't, really.

269
00:23:26,519 --> 00:23:30,640
<i>He sounded, like, average, I would say.</i>|<i>He wasn't the worst, he wasn't the best...</i>

270
00:23:30,759 --> 00:23:33,319
but the repertoire was similar|to everybody else's repertoire...

271
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,640
Josh White, Odetta, Belafonte.

272
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:40,200
Right then and there I had no goal|except learning all the songs I could.

273
00:23:55,319 --> 00:23:57,519
<i>He was hungry.</i>|<i>You know, hungry in a lot of ways...</i>

274
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,839
<i>not just for money, not just for fame...</i>

275
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:03,960
but he was hungry for experience,|for getting out, for doing it...

276
00:24:04,319 --> 00:24:07,200
for seeing what was out there,|seeing who he could be.

277
00:24:11,599 --> 00:24:13,440
<i>He was like a sponge in a way, like...</i>

278
00:24:13,519 --> 00:24:15,839
pick up people's mannerisms, accents.

279
00:24:25,839 --> 00:24:28,799
<i>I'd forgotten all about the Iron Range,</i>|<i>where I grew up.</i>

280
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:30,880
I'd forgotten about it all.

281
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:33,920
It didn't even enter my mind.

282
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,440
<i>Woody Guthrie, he had a particular sound.</i>

283
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,799
<i>And besides that, he said something</i>|<i>to go along with his sound.</i>

284
00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:02,279
<i>That was highly unusual, to my ears.</i>

285
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:22,359
<i>He was a radical,</i>|<i>his songs had a radical slant.</i>

286
00:25:22,799 --> 00:25:25,839
I thought, "ooh," you know, like...|"That's what I want to sing.

287
00:25:26,079 --> 00:25:27,079
"I want to sing that."

288
00:25:35,799 --> 00:25:37,960
<i>I couldn't believe</i>|<i>that I'd never heard of this man.</i>

289
00:25:38,079 --> 00:25:41,720
<i>You could listen to his songs,</i>|<i>and actually learn how to live.</i>

290
00:25:42,759 --> 00:25:45,880
<i>One guy said,</i>|<i>"You're singing a Woody Guthrie song."</i>

291
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,200
<i>He gave me a book that he wrote,</i>|<i>called</i> Bound for Glory, <i>and I read it.</i>

292
00:25:50,319 --> 00:25:53,079
I identified with that <i>Bound for Glory</i> book...

293
00:25:53,839 --> 00:25:56,359
more than I even did with <i>On the Road.</i>

294
00:25:57,519 --> 00:26:00,200
<i>These songs sounded archaic</i>|<i>to most people.</i>

295
00:26:01,039 --> 00:26:03,400
I don't know|why they didn't sound archaic to me.

296
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,079
They sounded like these songs|were happening at the moment, to me.

297
00:26:15,759 --> 00:26:18,039
<i>Well, I see you got your</i>

298
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,519
<i>brand new leopard-skin pill-box hat</i>

299
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,519
<i>Yes, I see you got your</i>

300
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:30,680
<i>brand new leopard-skin pill-box hat</i>

301
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,480
<i>Well, you must tell me, baby</i>

302
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:38,000
<i>how your head feels</i>|<i>under somethin' like that</i>

303
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,359
<i>Under your brand new</i>|<i>leopard-skin pill-box hat</i>

304
00:26:41,519 --> 00:26:43,640
<i>Well, you wear it so pretty</i>

305
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,960
<i>Honey, can I jump on it sometime?</i>

306
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,200
<i>Yes, I just wanna see</i>

307
00:26:52,759 --> 00:26:55,720
<i>if it's really the expensive kind</i>

308
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,400
<i>You know it balances on your head</i>

309
00:27:00,519 --> 00:27:03,720
<i>just like a mattress balances</i>|<i>on a bottle of wine</i>

310
00:27:03,799 --> 00:27:06,839
<i>Your brand new leopard-skin pill-box hat</i>

311
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,400
<i>I asked the doctor if I could see you</i>

312
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,599
Fantastic, very good.

313
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,799
- Rank.|- Excellent.

314
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,559
- It was lousy, it was pathetic.|- He was great!

315
00:27:48,319 --> 00:27:51,119
It said on the ticket|you came to see Dylan not a group.

316
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:52,400
Not a pop group.

317
00:27:58,279 --> 00:28:00,039
Special paper, now, with all the pictures.

318
00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:16,519
<i>I was just learning songs</i>|<i>and playing them...</i>

319
00:28:16,599 --> 00:28:19,039
<i>and trying to find out</i>|<i>who Woody Guthrie was.</i>

320
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,359
Woody's records|were almost impossible to find.

321
00:28:23,759 --> 00:28:26,559
They didn't have any of his records|in the record stores.

322
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,359
<i>Paul was a folk music scholar.</i>|<i>He didn't play at all.</i>

323
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,559
<i>He had a whole lot of records...</i>

324
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,240
which probably couldn't be found|anywhere else in the Midwest...

325
00:28:35,319 --> 00:28:38,559
except at Paul's house,|and he lived there with somebody else.

326
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,559
You know, I was listening to records|at his house once.

327
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,359
I knew they'd be away for the weekend...

328
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,599
so I went over there and helped myself|to a bunch of old records.

329
00:28:51,799 --> 00:28:56,079
<i>About 25 records disappeared,</i>|<i>mostly the stuff that Dylan was listening to.</i>

330
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,119
And we sort of figured out|that he'd taken them.

331
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,839
Those records were extremely hard to find.|They were like hen's teeth.

332
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,480
If you came across them,|somebody like myself...

333
00:29:06,599 --> 00:29:09,240
who was a musical expeditionary...

334
00:29:09,359 --> 00:29:12,519
you know, you just would have to|immerse yourself in them.

335
00:29:12,599 --> 00:29:14,599
<i>So we started trying to track Dylan down.</i>

336
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,519
<i>We tried the fraternity house</i>|<i>where he had once been.</i>

337
00:29:17,599 --> 00:29:20,920
<i>No luck there. We got another address,</i>|<i>and then yet another.</i>

338
00:29:21,039 --> 00:29:23,640
<i>And everybody said,</i>|<i>"Boy, this kid must be popular," you know.</i>

339
00:29:23,759 --> 00:29:27,119
<i>"You're about the tenth guy looking for him"</i>|<i>you know, at every place we went.</i>

340
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:31,319
<i>And I don't know how we finally found him,</i>|<i>but we got a current apartment.</i>

341
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,759
This was a John Wayne production number,|that John did.

342
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,680
He got a bowling pin,|and he got a big cigar...

343
00:29:37,799 --> 00:29:41,000
and John was 6'4" or something like this.

344
00:29:43,119 --> 00:29:46,440
And he wasn't ever intending to hit Dylan|with the bowling pin or anything...

345
00:29:46,559 --> 00:29:48,359
but he was really gonna do the bit.

346
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,440
<i>John just started waving the bowling pin</i>|<i>over his head, and just saying.</i>;

347
00:29:52,559 --> 00:29:55,400
<i>"I'm gonna beat the hell out of you.</i>|<i>Where are my records?"</i>

348
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:59,119
And Dylan was very scared|for the first time around this routine went.

349
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,079
But he maintained his cool somehow...

350
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,559
and it somehow settled|into sort of an absurdist drama...

351
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,759
where they would sort of talk.

352
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:12,759
Dylan would say something interesting,|and John would get interesting...

353
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,359
and they'd start to talk, and they'd start|to sort of like each other a little bit.

354
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:18,240
Then John would remember|why he was there...

355
00:30:18,319 --> 00:30:20,359
and he'd start brandishing the pin again.

356
00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,440
And they'd play the whole scene out again.

357
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:43,279
<i>I wanted to get to the East Coast</i>|<i>to visit Woody Guthrie.</i>

358
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,799
<i>When I first heard him, I didn't know</i>|<i>if he was dead or alive, really.</i>

359
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,960
But then I discovered|that he was definitely alive...

360
00:30:50,039 --> 00:30:53,039
and he was in a hospital...

361
00:30:54,279 --> 00:30:56,240
with some kind of ailment.

362
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:59,319
So I thought it'd be a nice gesture|to go visit him.

363
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,400
<i>Hitchhiking back then was very acceptable.</i>|<i>I had a suitcase and a guitar.</i>

364
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,960
<i>And I don't know,</i>|<i>maybe I had $ 10 in my pocket.</i>

365
00:31:55,359 --> 00:31:58,359
<i>Joan Baez, she was staggering.</i>

366
00:31:59,119 --> 00:32:01,480
<i>Kind of like hit my world</i>|<i>from a different angle.</i>

367
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,839
She was completely about folk music.

368
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,559
She was an excellent,|really excellent guitar player.

369
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,960
<i>When I saw her on television,</i>|<i>I thought, you know, like.</i>;

370
00:32:15,079 --> 00:32:18,200
<i>"That girl looks like</i>|<i>she might need a singing partner. "</i>

371
00:32:19,319 --> 00:32:22,880
I'd say she was someplace|in the back of my mind, you know.

372
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,000
<i>Let the word go forth</i>|<i>from this time and place...</i>

373
00:32:27,119 --> 00:32:29,279
<i>to friend and foe alike...</i>

374
00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,559
<i>that the torch has been passed</i>|<i>to a new generation of Americans.</i>

375
00:32:34,519 --> 00:32:38,599
<i>Ask not what your country can do for you.</i>

376
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,960
<i>Ask what you can do for your country.</i>

377
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,079
<i>Got out of the car</i>|<i>on George Washington Bridge...</i>

378
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,319
<i>took the subway down to the Village.</i>

379
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,920
<i>Went to the Caf� Wha?</i>|<i>I looked out at the crowd.</i>

380
00:32:50,039 --> 00:32:51,680
<i>I most likely asked from the stage.</i>;

381
00:32:51,759 --> 00:32:55,119
<i>"Does anybody know where</i>|<i>a couple of people could stay tonight?"</i>

382
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,680
<i>It was in old Greenwich Village,</i>|<i>which was the '20s bohemia...</i>

383
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,119
<i>and had a very venerable history.</i>

384
00:33:03,759 --> 00:33:05,319
<i>I first came down in 1948...</i>

385
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:08,200
with a red bandana around my neck...

386
00:33:08,319 --> 00:33:10,799
on the subway to go...

387
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,160
to see if I could find poets...

388
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,480
in Greenwich Village.

389
00:33:15,599 --> 00:33:16,799
But there had been poets.

390
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,680
<i>I probably came into the Village</i>|<i>around 1952 or '53. I was a kid.</i>

391
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:23,880
<i>I was living in Queens,</i>|<i>not liking it very much.</i>

392
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,200
And for me, it was very sophisticated.|I liked that.

393
00:33:28,359 --> 00:33:29,640
<i>I was into jazz at the time.</i>

394
00:33:29,759 --> 00:33:32,960
<i>I didn't like the folk music thing much at all,</i>|<i>I was very snobbish.</i>

395
00:33:33,039 --> 00:33:35,000
Over across the street, there was Nick's.

396
00:33:35,119 --> 00:33:37,000
<i>I actually met Tony Spargo...</i>

397
00:33:37,079 --> 00:33:39,920
<i>who was the drummer</i>|<i>on the very first jazz records...</i>

398
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:44,079
with the Original Dixieland Jazz Band,|in 1917.

399
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,480
When I was young,|it was a very laid-back place...

400
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,400
<i>intermingled with various ethnic groups</i>|<i>were lots of what we called bohemians...</i>

401
00:33:53,519 --> 00:33:55,599
<i>doing their art, walking their dogs.</i>

402
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,759
There was a wonderful creative climate there|although I didn't...

403
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,440
I wasn't fully aware of it,|but it was the center of the art world...

404
00:34:08,559 --> 00:34:10,840
<i>happenings, the first art movements</i>|<i>were going on.</i>

405
00:34:11,119 --> 00:34:12,360
It was all there.

406
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,199
You were suddenly able|to take your clothes off.

407
00:34:16,119 --> 00:34:20,719
<i>You were suddenly free</i>|<i>of all the shackles of family...</i>

408
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:22,559
the baggage...

409
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,519
of tradition, of bad tradition.

410
00:34:27,119 --> 00:34:31,320
<i>I was looking for freedom,</i>|<i>but freedom didn't exist all over America.</i>

411
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:35,079
Freedom only existed, really,|here in the Village, in Greenwich Village.

412
00:34:35,159 --> 00:34:38,159
<i>"America, I've given you all,</i>|<i>and now I'm nothing</i>

413
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,320
<i>"America, two dollars</i>|<i>and twenty-seven cents January 17, 1956</i>

414
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,239
<i>"I can't stand my own mind</i>

415
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,039
<i>"America, when will we end the human war?</i>

416
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,280
<i>"Go fuck yourself with your atom bomb.</i>

417
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:53,280
<i>"I don't feel good; don't bother me</i>

418
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:56,360
<i>"I won't write my poem</i>|<i>until I'm in my right mind"</i>

419
00:34:56,599 --> 00:34:58,320
<i>The big breakthrough...</i>

420
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,760
was in an ex-gay bar on MacDougal Street...

421
00:35:02,519 --> 00:35:06,039
formerly the MacDougal Street Bar,|I think this was '58 or '59...

422
00:35:07,519 --> 00:35:09,440
then called The Gaslight.

423
00:35:10,599 --> 00:35:14,679
And it was the first poetry reading|in one of these sort of coffee shop/bars...

424
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,639
sort of a folk club/coffee shop/bar.

425
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,119
And it was so astonishing|that there was a story on Page 3...

426
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:26,079
a whole page in the <i>Daily News.</i>;|"Poets Reading in the Coffee Shop."

427
00:35:26,159 --> 00:35:28,039
<i>"America, when will you be angelic?</i>

428
00:35:28,119 --> 00:35:29,960
<i>"When will you take off your clothes?</i>

429
00:35:30,039 --> 00:35:32,199
<i>"When will you look at yourself</i>|<i>through the grave?</i>

430
00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,119
<i>"When will you be worthy</i>|<i>of your million Trotskyites?</i>

431
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,119
<i>"America, why are your libraries</i>|<i>full of tears?</i>

432
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:40,880
<i>"America, when will you send</i>|<i>your eggs to India?</i>

433
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,679
<i>"I'm sick of your insane demands.</i>

434
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,960
<i>"When can I go into the supermarket</i>|<i>and buy what I need with my good looks?"</i>

435
00:35:46,079 --> 00:35:48,280
Down the block here was the San Remo.

436
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,239
<i>And every Saturday night</i>|<i>you'd have the riots...</i>

437
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,480
<i>between the Stalinists and the Trotskyites.</i>

438
00:35:52,559 --> 00:35:54,920
Glasses flying, that sort of thing.

439
00:35:57,039 --> 00:36:00,559
<i>There's an old bitch upstairs</i>|<i>who keeps pounding the floor...</i>

440
00:36:01,079 --> 00:36:03,719
and she's threatening to call the police|all the time.

441
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,239
<i>We used to be out at the bar here</i>|<i>with James Baldwin, the writer.</i>

442
00:36:08,159 --> 00:36:10,519
And he used to puff smoke:

443
00:36:10,639 --> 00:36:14,280
"This goddamn Irish music!"

444
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,000
And the whole place would erupt:

445
00:36:42,679 --> 00:36:45,320
<i>In Washington Square, early days,</i>|<i>it was just a place...</i>

446
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,639
<i>for people to hang out on Sundays</i>|<i>and talk and play music...</i>

447
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,199
<i>and kind of jockey around</i>|<i>and express themselves.</i>

448
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,159
<i>It was a place where you could put it</i>|<i>together so someone could hear a little bit.</i>

449
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:57,320
There weren't many concerts in those days.

450
00:37:14,639 --> 00:37:18,119
<i>People were starting to play little gigs</i>|<i>in these coffeehouses in the Village.</i>

451
00:37:18,199 --> 00:37:19,760
<i>We called them basket houses.</i>

452
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,199
We didn't get paid a dime but we would|pass a little bread basket around...

453
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,559
after the set|and people would throw change in...

454
00:37:25,679 --> 00:37:28,400
and then we'd pack up our guitars|and go round to the next club.

455
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:44,159
<i>They'd put the singers on in between</i>|<i>beat poets to turn the house, essentially.</i>

456
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:45,639
So you'd get...

457
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,480
three songs, you could sing three songs.

458
00:37:49,559 --> 00:37:50,840
And what it came down to is...

459
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:54,320
if at the end of your three songs|there was still anybody seated...

460
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,119
in the house, you were fired.|You weren't doing your job.

461
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,719
Needless to say, we didn't get fired.|That we could do.

462
00:38:22,559 --> 00:38:24,960
<i>When we played in the city,</i>|<i>who was the audience?</i>

463
00:38:25,039 --> 00:38:27,719
<i>Who were those people walking</i>|<i>up and down MacDougal Street?</i>

464
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:28,920
<i>There was a lot of them.</i>

465
00:38:29,039 --> 00:38:32,960
<i>Some were people from the suburbs</i>|<i>coming in to look at the weird scene.</i>

466
00:38:33,039 --> 00:38:34,960
<i>Some were from the city</i>|<i>looking at the weird scene.</i>

467
00:38:35,079 --> 00:38:36,360
<i>Some were the weird scene.</i>

468
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,480
It was never clear that this was the audience|and this was the singer.

469
00:38:40,599 --> 00:38:43,639
Because maybe half the audience|if they had their druthers...

470
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,800
they'd be up on the stage singing as well.|It was very interesting.

471
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,280
<i>I was ready for New York.</i>

472
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:25,280
<i>I started playing immediately</i>|<i>and I realized right away...</i>

473
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:29,800
<i>that I'd come to the right place,</i>|<i>because there were many places to play.</i>

474
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,800
<i>I played with Freddy Neil.</i>|<i>He was a big star down there.</i>

475
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,760
<i>I did that until about 8.</i>;<i>00,</i>|<i>he would give me what he could.</i>

476
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,079
<i>The place was usually packed</i>|<i>from 12.</i>;<i>00 to 8.</i>;<i>00...</i>

477
00:39:44,199 --> 00:39:46,800
<i>with tourists and lunch-hour secretaries.</i>

478
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,960
And then at 8:00|all the rest of the houses would open...

479
00:39:51,119 --> 00:39:53,239
where you'd pass the basket and play.

480
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,480
<i>Check it out.</i>

481
00:39:55,599 --> 00:39:58,400
<i>There'd be a carny on the street</i>|<i>bringing people down.</i>

482
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,400
<i>"You know, you gotta come down here</i>|<i>and see this.</i>

483
00:40:00,519 --> 00:40:02,840
<i>"There's so much weirdness</i>|<i>you've never seen in your life. "</i>

484
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,840
<i>Just always,</i>|<i>there'd be people coming and going.</i>

485
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,079
<i>I have studied at Oxford University...</i>

486
00:40:07,159 --> 00:40:09,639
<i>I've done my research</i>|<i>at the British Museum...</i>

487
00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:12,559
<i>and have matriculated at Brooklyn College.</i>

488
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,079
<i>Sawdust on the floor, tourist traps...</i>

489
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:19,320
<i>like, a poet, somebody singing a song</i>|<i>with a parrot on a shoulder...</i>

490
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,159
<i>Tiny Tim-type characters.</i>

491
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,039
<i>No one who had any recordings out</i>|<i>ever played them.</i>

492
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:26,199
You only played those if you had to.

493
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,800
<i>You would have to</i>|<i>make an impression on somebody.</i>

494
00:40:35,039 --> 00:40:37,039
<i>There were many, many singers</i>|<i>who were good...</i>

495
00:40:37,159 --> 00:40:39,039
<i>but they couldn't focus</i>|<i>their attention on anybody.</i>

496
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,880
They couldn't really|get inside somebody's head.

497
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,639
<i>You gotta be able to pin somebody down.</i>

498
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:55,159
<i>I remember him because he was different.</i>|<i>He was doing Woody Guthrie songs.</i>

499
00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,000
<i>He had on a little hat, he had a brace.</i>

500
00:40:59,119 --> 00:41:02,400
There's a quality of determination...

501
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,400
and of will that some people have...

502
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,639
where when they're doing something,|they're really doing it...

503
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,159
and you know that|you have to pay attention to them.

504
00:41:13,519 --> 00:41:16,880
<i>I first met Bob in the winter of 1961.</i>

505
00:41:17,039 --> 00:41:19,639
<i>We were awkward.</i>|<i>Neither of us really knew quite what to say.</i>

506
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,119
So as a prop he pulled out this card.

507
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,559
And he was moving his leg like that|and he just hands me the card.

508
00:41:26,639 --> 00:41:29,239
And after he handed it to me|he kind of glances and then...

509
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:31,960
continues to sort of|talk about Woody Guthrie.

510
00:41:32,079 --> 00:41:36,480
And on the card it said,|"I ain't dead yet," signed, Woody Guthrie.

511
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:41,320
And it was actually Woody's handwriting,|I guess, because Bob claimed it was.

512
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,039
<i>Like, Woody was very important</i>|<i>to both of us.</i>

513
00:41:44,119 --> 00:41:46,760
<i>Bob, I think, wanted to be</i>|<i>more like Woody than I did.</i>

514
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,639
<i>He was able to adopt</i>|<i>a kind of theater about himself.</i>

515
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:53,679
Actually, the very first time that I met him,|he was really acting, in a way.

516
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:58,360
And that was good because you can|go anywhere when you're somebody else.

517
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:02,559
<i>Cinderella, she seems so easy</i>

518
00:42:02,639 --> 00:42:06,079
<i>"It takes one to know one," she smiles</i>

519
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:10,239
<i>And puts her hands into her back pockets</i>

520
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,000
<i>Bette Davis style</i>

521
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,840
<i>And in comes Romeo, he's moaning</i>

522
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,599
<i>"You Belong to Me, I Believe"</i>

523
00:42:22,639 --> 00:42:25,920
<i>And someone turns and says to him</i>

524
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,320
<i>"My friend, you'd better leave"</i>

525
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,719
<i>And the only sound that's left</i>

526
00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:37,599
<i>after the ambulances go</i>

527
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,920
<i>is Cinderella sweeping up</i>

528
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,119
<i>on Desolation Row</i>

529
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,360
<i>Now the moon is almost hidden</i>

530
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,840
<i>The stars, they're just pretending to hide</i>

531
00:42:56,519 --> 00:42:59,639
<i>The fortune-telling lady</i>

532
00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:03,280
<i>has even taken all her things inside</i>

533
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,519
<i>All except for Cain and Abel</i>

534
00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:11,239
<i>And the Hunchback of Notre Dame</i>

535
00:43:12,400 --> 00:43:15,400
<i>Everyone is either making love</i>

536
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,679
<i>or else expecting rain</i>

537
00:43:19,599 --> 00:43:23,079
<i>And the Good Samaritan, he's dressing</i>

538
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:27,079
<i>He's getting ready for the show</i>

539
00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:31,079
<i>He's going to the carnival tonight</i>

540
00:43:31,199 --> 00:43:34,440
<i>on Desolation Row</i>

541
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,840
- I want to see this person immediately.|- What?

542
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:39,360
Whoever's gonna shoot me.

543
00:43:41,519 --> 00:43:43,519
How do you find that out, Albert?

544
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,239
Phoned the box office|and they say they're gonna shoot me.

545
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:51,480
Do they do this often?

546
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,679
I don't mind being shot, man,|but I don't dig being told about it.

547
00:43:58,639 --> 00:44:00,199
Man, I can't believe that.

548
00:44:00,360 --> 00:44:03,880
- Don't worry, Mickey. I'll protect you.|- I hope so.

549
00:44:04,079 --> 00:44:05,000
God.

550
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:12,000
Don't tell me not to push too hard, man.|I'm worried about getting shot.

551
00:44:12,079 --> 00:44:13,800
I'm not gonna push too hard.

552
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,199
<i>Obviously, he was channeling</i>|<i>Woody Guthrie.</i>

553
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:33,800
He was literally channeling him|and everything about him.

554
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:37,000
And I think it was part of his way|of finding who he was in the end...

555
00:44:38,199 --> 00:44:40,960
by imitating and assimilating Woody Guthrie.

556
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,639
<i>So I found out where Woody Guthrie was,</i>|<i>and I took a bus out to Morristown.</i>

557
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:51,079
<i>Basically, I think it was an insane asylum.</i>

558
00:44:51,199 --> 00:44:54,440
<i>I thought about it later, it was a sad thing,</i>|<i>they put him in a mental home...</i>

559
00:44:54,559 --> 00:44:56,360
<i>because he just had the jitters.</i>

560
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:04,679
<i>He asked for certain songs</i>|<i>and I'd play them.</i>

561
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:09,199
I was young and impressionable|and I think I must have been shocked...

562
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,360
in some kind of way|to find him where I found him.

563
00:45:27,159 --> 00:45:30,480
<i>Brother John Sellers, he was the</i>|<i>master of ceremonies at Gerde's Folk City.</i>

564
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,440
And there was one night called|Hootenanny Night where anybody could play.

565
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:56,800
<i>We'd go down there every Monday night.</i>

566
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:01,320
Peter LaFarge, who was|sort of a cowboy/lndian...

567
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:03,239
and Cisco Houston.

568
00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:06,360
A lot of the old Woody Guthrie crowd|was still hanging out there.

569
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:16,159
<i>We just watched and we picked out</i>|<i>the performers that were doing it for real...</i>

570
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,199
and tried to pick up what the essence|of what they were doing was.

571
00:46:20,679 --> 00:46:24,440
All of us were interested in seeing|what the other guy was doing onstage...

572
00:46:24,519 --> 00:46:26,559
because there was|a lot more to be learned...

573
00:46:26,679 --> 00:46:29,559
than just songs or picking styles.

574
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,719
<i>Dave Van Ronk,</i>|<i>he had that big gruff thing...</i>

575
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,920
<i>but he had this very sweet, sensitive thing</i>|<i>going on at the same time.</i>

576
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,199
<i>He was a dichotomy of a performer.</i>

577
00:46:52,519 --> 00:46:54,840
<i>He could take the essence of the song...</i>

578
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,920
<i>and only go after that,</i>|<i>not go after the frills.</i>

579
00:46:58,559 --> 00:47:01,320
<i>On Monday nights,</i>|<i>Bob Dylan used to come over there...</i>

580
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:03,239
<i>and he would always, like...</i>

581
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,599
He was always just hanging around.

582
00:47:06,679 --> 00:47:09,639
Sometimes you wanted to say, "Go away."

583
00:47:38,599 --> 00:47:40,639
Liam was profound.

584
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,360
Besides all of his rebel songs...

585
00:47:45,199 --> 00:47:47,840
and his acting career,|he would have these incredible sayings.

586
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:52,039
Like once he said to me|after about 30 pints of Guinness...

587
00:47:52,159 --> 00:47:54,960
he was saying, "Remember, Bob, no fear...

588
00:47:55,559 --> 00:47:57,360
"no envy, no meanness."

589
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,880
I said, "Right."

590
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:37,800
<i>What I heard in the Clancy Brothers</i>|<i>was rousing, rebel songs...</i>

591
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,639
<i>Napoleonic in scope.</i>

592
00:48:41,199 --> 00:48:44,320
<i>And they were just these</i>|<i>Musketeer-type characters.</i>

593
00:48:44,519 --> 00:48:48,880
<i>And then on the other level you had</i>|<i>the romantic ballads that would just...</i>

594
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:54,039
<i>slay you right in your tracks,</i>|<i>the sweetness of Tommy Makem and Liam.</i>

595
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:57,760
<i>It was just like, take a sword,</i>|<i>cut off your head, and then weep.</i>

596
00:48:58,559 --> 00:49:00,960
<i>That's sort of what they were about.</i>

597
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:35,239
<i>All the great performers that I'd seen...</i>

598
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,960
<i>who I wanted to be like</i>|<i>were those kind of performers...</i>

599
00:49:38,039 --> 00:49:39,400
<i>they all had one thing in common.</i>;

600
00:49:39,519 --> 00:49:43,840
It was in their eyes.

601
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,400
Now, there was something in their eyes|that would say:

602
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:49,760
"I know something you don't know,"|and I wanted to be that kind of performer.

603
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,400
<i>I am a man of constant sorrow</i>

604
00:50:08,519 --> 00:50:12,159
<i>I've seen trouble all my days</i>

605
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:21,000
<i>I'll say goodbye to Colorado</i>

606
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:25,079
<i>Where I was born and partly raised</i>

607
00:50:43,039 --> 00:50:47,360
<i>Through this open world</i>|<i>I'm a-bound to ramble</i>

608
00:50:47,719 --> 00:50:51,400
<i>Through ice and snow, sleet and rain</i>

609
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:59,440
<i>I'm a-bound to ride that morning railroad</i>

610
00:50:59,559 --> 00:51:03,400
<i>Perhaps I'll die upon that train</i>

611
00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:26,079
<i>He was playing at some party or something</i>|<i>and it was like a whole different guy.</i>

612
00:51:26,159 --> 00:51:27,880
You hear those stories|about the blues men...

613
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:30,760
who go out to the crossroads|and sell their soul to the devil...

614
00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:32,800
and come back,|all of a sudden able to do stuff...

615
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,039
Robert Johnson, Tommy Johnson,|that whole mythology.

616
00:51:36,119 --> 00:51:38,320
It was one of those kind of deals, almost.

617
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,679
<i>When he left Minneapolis</i>|<i>he was just average.</i>

618
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,559
<i>There was five, six other guys</i>|<i>doing the same thing.</i>

619
00:51:43,639 --> 00:51:45,519
<i>When he came back he was doing Woody...</i>

620
00:51:45,639 --> 00:51:48,159
<i>and he was doing Van Ronk</i>|<i>and he was fingerpicking.</i>

621
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:51,320
He was playing cross harp,|and this is a matter of a couple of months.

622
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:54,199
I mean, this is not like|he was gone a year or anything.

623
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,320
He was gone a couple of months|and apparently whatever he got into...

624
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:01,280
he got into so intensely that|he was like a real interesting performer.

625
00:52:01,960 --> 00:52:04,960
That's when I went to the crossroads|and made a big deal.

626
00:52:05,199 --> 00:52:06,719
You know, like...

627
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:13,239
One night and then|went back to Minneapolis...

628
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:16,039
and it was like, "Hey, where's this guy been?

629
00:52:17,079 --> 00:52:19,280
"You've been to the crossroads."

630
00:52:32,599 --> 00:52:34,199
<i>I wasn't seeing Woody Guthrie anymore.</i>

631
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:35,840
<i>I was still singing a lot of his songs...</i>

632
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:38,960
<i>but I'd replaced them with</i>|<i>a lot of the other songs, all of a sudden.</i>

633
00:52:39,079 --> 00:52:41,320
<i>I kind of went through Woody Guthrie</i>|<i>in a kind of way.</i>

634
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,360
<i>But I didn't really want</i>|<i>to go through Woody Guthrie.</i>

635
00:52:43,480 --> 00:52:47,000
<i>I didn't want to feel that</i>|<i>it was something just negligible.</i>

636
00:52:47,079 --> 00:52:50,599
<i>Hey, hey, Woody Guthrie,</i>|<i>I wrote you a song</i>

637
00:52:53,320 --> 00:52:56,920
<i>About a funny ol' world that's a-coming</i>|along

638
00:52:59,559 --> 00:53:04,039
<i>Seems sick and it's hungry,</i>|<i>it's tired and it's torn</i>

639
00:53:06,199 --> 00:53:10,559
<i>It looks like it's a-dyin'</i>

640
00:53:10,639 --> 00:53:12,760
<i>and it's hardly been born</i>

641
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:17,679
<i>But I really cared, I really wanted to portray</i>|<i>my gratitude in some kind of way.</i>

642
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,480
<i>But I knew that I was not gonna be</i>|<i>going back to Greystone anymore.</i>

643
00:53:23,639 --> 00:53:28,000
I felt like I had to write that song.|I did not consider myself a songwriter at all.

644
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:32,840
But I needed to write that|and I needed to sing it.

645
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,280
So that's why I needed to write it.

646
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,079
'Cause it hadn't been written and that's what|I needed to say, I needed to say that.

647
00:53:40,199 --> 00:53:44,000
<i>Here's to Cisco and Sonny</i>|<i>and Lead Belly, too</i>

648
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:50,719
<i>And to all the good people</i>|<i>that traveled with you</i>

649
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:57,039
<i>Here's to the hearts</i>|<i>and the hands of the men</i>

650
00:53:59,639 --> 00:54:04,000
<i>that come with the dust</i>

651
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:06,440
<i>and are gone with the wind</i>

652
00:54:07,519 --> 00:54:08,639
<i>So this guy comes in.</i>

653
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:13,199
He didn't look too prepossessing.|He didn't look too interesting to me.

654
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,360
He didn't look wild or...

655
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,400
He looked like an ordinary kid.

656
00:54:19,199 --> 00:54:21,800
He didn't have the commanding presence.

657
00:54:22,639 --> 00:54:26,760
And he said, "Listen, I got some songs|I wanted you to hear."

658
00:54:26,920 --> 00:54:28,880
So I was, "Oh, God.|Can you come tomorrow?"

659
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,679
I says, "Get out of here."|He says, "No, I want to sing you a song."

660
00:54:31,760 --> 00:54:33,960
So I let him sing the song,|then I kick him out...

661
00:54:34,039 --> 00:54:36,000
then he comes back, then he came back.

662
00:54:36,079 --> 00:54:39,840
And then I started pointing to people, I said,|"Listen, see that guy in the back room?

663
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,119
"His name is Bob Dylan.|You should listen to him.

664
00:54:42,199 --> 00:54:43,880
"The guy's writing good songs. He's terrific."

665
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,639
<i>He told me he never knew</i>|<i>the word folk music...</i>

666
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:48,639
<i>before he came to New York City.</i>|<i>What bullshit, God!</i>

667
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,119
And he'd never seen somebody playing|a banjo before he came to New York City.

668
00:54:53,199 --> 00:54:55,760
He'd never seen all these things|before he came to New York City.

669
00:54:55,880 --> 00:54:58,400
It opened his eyes up wide|to what folk music is...

670
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:00,800
after having lived on the Mississippi River|and everything.

671
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:05,280
"I was born in Duluth, Minnesota, in 1941.|Moved to Gallup, New Mexico.

672
00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:07,039
"Then, until now...

673
00:55:08,199 --> 00:55:11,920
"lived in lowa, South Dakota, Kansas,|North Dakota, for a little bit.

674
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:16,159
"Started playing in carnivals|when I was 14 with guitar and piano."

675
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:18,599
"Arvella Gray taught him blues songs...

676
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:21,480
"a blind street singer from Chicago,|about four or five years ago.

677
00:55:21,559 --> 00:55:25,159
"Used to know a guy named|Mance Lipscomb, from Navasota, Texas.

678
00:55:25,280 --> 00:55:28,880
"Listened to him a lot. Met him|through his grandson, a rock 'n' roller."

679
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:32,199
Now, listened to Arvella Gray in Chicago...

680
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,000
Mance Lipscomb in Texas...

681
00:55:34,119 --> 00:55:36,639
I should have figured out right away,|he's bullshitting me.

682
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:38,920
And I only found out later...

683
00:55:39,239 --> 00:55:42,199
that he had borrowed 400 records|from Tony Glover...

684
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:45,480
or something like that,|which he still hasn't returned.

685
00:55:45,559 --> 00:55:47,480
And things like that.

686
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:51,519
So I was a setup, a very easy setup,|and I'm proud of it.

687
00:55:51,599 --> 00:55:54,440
Because the guy wrote good songs.|I didn't care what he was telling me.

688
00:55:54,679 --> 00:55:56,760
<i>I saw it advertised one day</i>

689
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,199
<i>A Bear Mountain picnic was comin' my way</i>

690
00:55:59,280 --> 00:56:01,280
<i>Come along with us and take a trip</i>

691
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,000
<i>We'll transport you up there on a ship</i>

692
00:56:04,559 --> 00:56:06,800
<i>Bring the wife and kids</i>

693
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:09,079
<i>Fun for all</i>

694
00:56:10,239 --> 00:56:11,159
<i>Yippee</i>

695
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,480
<i>The owner of the place</i>|<i>finally gave me a two-week run.</i>

696
00:56:17,159 --> 00:56:18,679
<i>He had me open for John Lee Hooker.</i>

697
00:56:18,760 --> 00:56:20,960
<i>Well, it don't seem to me quite so funny</i>

698
00:56:21,039 --> 00:56:24,199
<i>What some of these people</i>|<i>are gonna do for money</i>

699
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:26,840
<i>There's a brand new gimmick every day</i>

700
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:28,920
<i>Just to take somebody's money away</i>

701
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,519
<i>I didn't really feel like</i>|<i>I was making a step forward anywhere.</i>

702
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,320
Things were taking its natural course.

703
00:56:35,880 --> 00:56:37,800
<i>Now, November 4,</i>|<i>Bob Dylan will be singing.</i>

704
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,320
<i>And that should be a very eventful occasion.</i>

705
00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,239
<i>Bob was born in Duluth, Minnesota...</i>

706
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:45,920
<i>but, Bob, you weren't raised</i>|<i>in Duluth, were you?</i>

707
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,840
<i>I was raised in Gallup, New Mexico.</i>

708
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:50,639
<i>And did you get many songs there?</i>

709
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,039
<i>Got a lot of cowboy songs there.</i>|<i>Indian songs.</i>

710
00:56:53,159 --> 00:56:55,320
<i>Well, I'm gonna get you, Sally gal</i>

711
00:56:55,400 --> 00:56:57,239
<i>I'm gonna get you, Sally gal</i>

712
00:56:57,320 --> 00:56:59,280
<i>I'm gonna get you, Sally gal</i>

713
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:01,079
<i>I'm gonna get you, Sally gal</i>

714
00:57:01,159 --> 00:57:04,840
<i>I didn't start to have any ambition</i>|<i>until I started working more and more.</i>

715
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,760
<i>I wondered how people recorded.</i>|<i>I wondered how you get to do that.</i>

716
00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:12,440
<i>There were always talent scouts</i>|<i>in the clubs.</i>

717
00:57:12,519 --> 00:57:15,559
No one had ever spoken to me directly|about making any records...

718
00:57:15,679 --> 00:57:17,599
so I just assumed they'd passed on me.

719
00:57:22,519 --> 00:57:25,519
<i>The most important new vocal personality</i>|<i>of recent years.</i>;

720
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:31,000
<i>Johnny Mathis, who vaulted over</i>|<i>a Columbia microphone to stardom.</i>

721
00:57:35,159 --> 00:57:38,599
I always looked for songs that had|a kind of excellence, lasting quality...

722
00:57:38,719 --> 00:57:42,559
<i>and artists who produced</i>|<i>a beautiful sound with their voice.</i>

723
00:57:42,719 --> 00:57:46,320
<i>From 1953, I was a head of A&R</i>|<i>at Columbia.</i>

724
00:58:04,199 --> 00:58:05,639
<i>That was the sound of the day.</i>

725
00:58:05,719 --> 00:58:09,480
People would want to hear|a beautiful voice sing a melodic song.

726
00:58:09,639 --> 00:58:11,679
- John, are you gonna do one, or was I?|- You will.

727
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,079
Okay. I'll do <i>Man of Constant Sorrow</i>|then with the autoharp.

728
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:29,199
<i>We recorded for Folkways.</i>

729
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:32,360
<i>We lived in the clear, pure light</i>|<i>of non-commercial...</i>

730
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:34,960
long-playing, short-selling records|for Folkways.

731
00:58:35,079 --> 00:58:38,199
I learned it from a record that was made|down in the Southern mountains...

732
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:40,039
in the late 1920s.

733
00:58:40,119 --> 00:58:43,679
<i>We also seemed to represent</i>|<i>some idea about, excuse the expression...</i>

734
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:47,559
<i>integrity, or standing for something</i>|<i>authentic or real in music.</i>

735
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:56,920
<i>We were always pointing</i>|<i>to other people's music...</i>

736
00:58:57,000 --> 00:59:00,480
<i>pointing to old singers,</i>|<i>Appalachian singers, blues singers.</i>

737
00:59:00,719 --> 00:59:03,199
I think we were set up as a...

738
00:59:05,039 --> 00:59:06,079
pillar of virtue.

739
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:20,639
<i>The folksinging scene</i>|<i>was either commercial folksinging...</i>

740
00:59:20,719 --> 00:59:24,719
for like a college kind of crowd:|Harry Belafonte, Brothers Four...

741
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:28,679
that commercial... They had records|that were on the pop charts.

742
00:59:29,320 --> 00:59:32,199
And then there was the other side,|which was intellectual.

743
00:59:32,320 --> 00:59:35,199
People would just sit there,|you know, I think...

744
00:59:36,039 --> 00:59:40,000
And playing in the environment|that I was playing in...

745
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:41,639
was neither of those.

746
00:59:42,079 --> 00:59:45,800
I took him up to Folkways Records and|that's written about in my notebook here...

747
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:48,280
where they treated him like shit.|They wouldn't talk to him.

748
00:59:48,360 --> 00:59:50,800
And he writes, "God,|I thought I came into the wrong place."

749
00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:53,360
<i>Sing Out</i> on the door,|"Folkways" on the door...

750
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:56,480
Moe Asch, Irwin Silber, rejects him,|throw him out on the street.

751
00:59:56,559 --> 00:59:58,880
And he really felt bad about it|and I felt bad about it...

752
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,159
'cause I don't push people every day.|I've only pushed two people in my life.

753
01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:06,880
I take him up to Maynard Solomon,|at Vanguard Records.

754
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:09,480
And they say no.

755
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,559
And many years later I said,|"Why did you say no to him?"

756
01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:17,119
And he said, "Well, lzzy, we don't|record freaks at Vanguard Records."

757
01:00:17,239 --> 01:00:19,840
I said, "I see. Joan Baez, not a freak.

758
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:22,440
"The other people not...|Nobody's a freak, just Bob Dylan."

759
01:00:22,719 --> 01:00:24,800
<i>I was standing in the audience</i>|<i>with Maynard Solomon.</i>

760
01:00:24,920 --> 01:00:27,800
<i>Maynard says, "What do you think of him?"</i>|<i>I said, "That's good!"</i>

761
01:00:28,159 --> 01:00:31,199
I said, "What do you think of him?"|He says, "It's too visceral."

762
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:13,079
<i>John discovered Billie Holiday,</i>|<i>Blind Boy Fuller, Lena Horne...</i>

763
01:01:13,159 --> 01:01:14,440
Count Basie.

764
01:01:14,559 --> 01:01:18,559
Yeah, he was kind of like a Damon Runyon|character. Is that the word?

765
01:01:18,679 --> 01:01:21,599
One of these old Broadway guys,|buzz-cut haircut.

766
01:01:21,679 --> 01:01:24,519
<i>He was very special in a lot of ways.</i>|<i>He was very enthusiastic.</i>

767
01:01:24,599 --> 01:01:27,559
<i>He had great love of music,</i>|<i>and it just radiated out of him.</i>

768
01:01:27,679 --> 01:01:30,400
<i>When I met him, a review had</i>|<i>just come out of</i>The New York Times...

769
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:32,840
<i>of the set I'd played at Gerde's</i>|<i>the previous night.</i>

770
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:35,559
<i>Hammond had seen the article</i>|<i>and asked me right then and there...</i>

771
01:01:35,679 --> 01:01:38,440
<i>whether I wanted to record</i>|<i>for Columbia Records.</i>

772
01:01:38,519 --> 01:01:42,880
I thought it was almost unreal.|I mean, no one would think that...

773
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:47,280
this kind of folk music would be|recorded on Columbia Records.

774
01:01:47,559 --> 01:01:50,079
John called me in my office at Columbia.

775
01:01:50,159 --> 01:01:52,360
He says, "Come on down,|I want you to hear something."

776
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:54,800
<i>He didn't tell me who it was or anything.</i>|<i>I come down.</i>

777
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:59,000
<i>There's this kid, all dressed up,</i>|<i>with the boots and the suede jacket...</i>

778
01:01:59,079 --> 01:02:00,519
<i>and he had the harmonica on.</i>

779
01:02:00,599 --> 01:02:03,960
<i>And he was singing</i>|<i>in this, you know, rough-edged voice.</i>

780
01:02:04,440 --> 01:02:08,000
I will admit I didn't see the greatness of it.

781
01:02:08,079 --> 01:02:10,199
They recorded the popular hits of the day...

782
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,960
of people usually|with beautiful tones of voices...

783
01:02:13,039 --> 01:02:17,199
and great arrangements.

784
01:02:18,519 --> 01:02:22,000
I don't know what they thought|of my stuff up there.

785
01:02:22,119 --> 01:02:26,320
He has no voice, I mean|he doesn't produce a beautiful sound.

786
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:30,880
I was used to finding guys|like Bennett and Damone and Mathis.

787
01:02:30,960 --> 01:02:35,039
But when somebody like John Hammond|is so confident of somebody's talent...

788
01:02:35,119 --> 01:02:39,079
you have to respect that,|for no other reason than his track record.

789
01:02:39,639 --> 01:02:41,800
I didn't tell anybody for a bit...

790
01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:45,079
because I almost wasn't sure|it was happening myself.

791
01:02:48,519 --> 01:02:51,760
I don't think I really told anybody|until I actually...

792
01:02:53,079 --> 01:02:54,519
went through with the sessions.

793
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:57,679
<i>I first heard this from Rick Von Schmidt.</i>

794
01:02:59,920 --> 01:03:01,719
<i>He lives in Cambridge.</i>

795
01:03:02,079 --> 01:03:04,480
<i>I met him one day in...</i>

796
01:03:05,719 --> 01:03:08,480
<i>the green pastures of Harvard University.</i>

797
01:03:09,280 --> 01:03:12,320
<i>I have a habit I picked up</i>|<i>someplace along the way.</i>

798
01:03:12,519 --> 01:03:16,480
Whatever works for me,|not to give that away...

799
01:03:17,639 --> 01:03:19,079
so easily, you know.

800
01:03:19,599 --> 01:03:22,039
<i>Baby, let me follow you down</i>

801
01:03:22,960 --> 01:03:25,519
<i>Baby, let me follow you down</i>

802
01:03:25,920 --> 01:03:29,280
<i>Well, I'll do anything</i>|<i>in this God almighty world</i>

803
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,840
<i>If you just let me follow you down</i>

804
01:03:32,039 --> 01:03:34,159
When I did make that first record...

805
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:39,360
I used songs which I just knew|but I hadn't really performed them a lot.

806
01:03:39,719 --> 01:03:42,880
<i>I wanted just to record stuff</i>|<i>that was off the top of my head...</i>

807
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:44,000
<i>and see what would happen.</i>

808
01:03:44,079 --> 01:03:47,000
<i>There is a house</i>

809
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:49,800
<i>down in New Orleans</i>

810
01:03:51,239 --> 01:03:55,679
<i>They call The Rising Sun</i>

811
01:03:58,159 --> 01:04:01,519
<i>And it's been the ruin</i>

812
01:04:01,840 --> 01:04:04,480
<i>of many a poor girl</i>

813
01:04:05,440 --> 01:04:09,920
<i>And me, oh, God, I'm one</i>

814
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:12,239
The House of the Rising Sun|<i>is on that record.</i>

815
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:13,519
I'd never done that song before...

816
01:04:13,639 --> 01:04:16,000
but I heard it every night|'cause Van Ronk would do it.

817
01:04:16,559 --> 01:04:21,119
So I thought he was really on to something|with the song, so I just recorded it.

818
01:04:21,519 --> 01:04:23,920
Bobby picked up the chord changes...

819
01:04:25,159 --> 01:04:27,760
for the song from me.

820
01:04:29,679 --> 01:04:34,199
It really altered the song considerably,|although the lyric was...

821
01:04:35,480 --> 01:04:37,920
pretty much the straight|<i>House of the Rising Sun</i> lyric...

822
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:39,760
and so was the melody.

823
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:44,199
And when he was doing,|I guess it was his first album...

824
01:04:45,800 --> 01:04:49,199
he asked me if I would mind...

825
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:52,639
if he recorded my version|of <i>House of the Rising Sun.</i>

826
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,599
And I had some plans to record it.

827
01:04:57,679 --> 01:05:00,719
So I said, "Well, gee, Bob,|I'd rather you didn't...

828
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:03,559
"because I'm gonna record it myself soon."

829
01:05:04,039 --> 01:05:05,880
And Bobby said, "Oh-oh."

830
01:05:08,719 --> 01:05:12,039
<i>The mystery of being in a recording studio</i>|<i>did something to me...</i>

831
01:05:12,119 --> 01:05:13,639
<i>and those are the songs that came out.</i>

832
01:05:13,760 --> 01:05:16,199
<i>Now the only thing</i>

833
01:05:17,000 --> 01:05:19,400
<i>a gambler needs</i>

834
01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:24,920
<i>is a suitcase and a trunk</i>

835
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:29,960
After he recorded it,|I had to stop singing the song...

836
01:05:30,079 --> 01:05:32,360
because people were constantly...

837
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:38,159
accusing me of having got the song|from Bobby's record.

838
01:05:38,800 --> 01:05:42,920
Now that was very, very annoying.

839
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:46,280
But I couldn't blame that on him|and I didn't.

840
01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:48,480
The whole thing was a tempest in a teapot.

841
01:05:48,599 --> 01:05:53,280
Later on, when Eric Burdon and the Animals|picked the song up from Bobby...

842
01:05:54,199 --> 01:05:57,239
and recorded it, Bobby told me|that he had had to drop the song...

843
01:05:57,320 --> 01:06:00,840
because everybody was accusing him|of ripping it off of Eric Burdon!

844
01:06:01,599 --> 01:06:03,679
<i>Feelin' funny in my mind, Lord</i>

845
01:06:03,800 --> 01:06:05,880
<i>I believe I'm fixin' to die</i>

846
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:09,880
<i>When I got the disk, I played it</i>|<i>and I was highly disturbed.</i>

847
01:06:10,119 --> 01:06:13,440
I just wanted to cross this record out|and make another record immediately.

848
01:06:13,559 --> 01:06:15,599
I thought I'd recorded the wrong songs...

849
01:06:15,719 --> 01:06:19,400
and I'd already written a few of my own,|that I thought maybe...

850
01:06:19,480 --> 01:06:21,639
I should have stuck on there.|I was way past that record.

851
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:23,079
Or part of me was just saying...

852
01:06:23,199 --> 01:06:26,079
that I didn't want to record|that record anyway, that I just did it...

853
01:06:26,199 --> 01:06:29,480
I didn't want to give away|anything that was really...

854
01:06:33,159 --> 01:06:34,719
dear to me or something.

855
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:38,119
<i>When Bobby signed with Columbia,</i>|<i>it was big news on the street.</i>

856
01:06:38,239 --> 01:06:39,960
<i>Everybody wanted that.</i>

857
01:06:40,039 --> 01:06:43,239
People couldn't bring themselves to admit...

858
01:06:44,599 --> 01:06:46,960
that they were that hungry.

859
01:06:48,320 --> 01:06:52,639
They turned it into a moral issue.|They had to.

860
01:06:53,480 --> 01:06:55,920
Because otherwise|they were going to have to take...

861
01:06:56,039 --> 01:06:59,840
long looks at themselves|and might not like what they saw.

862
01:07:05,840 --> 01:07:06,760
Play.

863
01:07:07,639 --> 01:07:10,800
<i>Baby, let me follow you down</i>

864
01:07:11,079 --> 01:07:13,559
<i>Baby, let me follow you down</i>

865
01:07:14,039 --> 01:07:17,400
<i>Well, I'd do anything</i>|<i>in this God almighty world</i>

866
01:07:17,480 --> 01:07:20,719
<i>If you just let me follow you down</i>

867
01:07:34,440 --> 01:07:37,519
<i>I'll buy you a diamond ring</i>

868
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:40,679
<i>Yes, I'll buy you a wedding gown</i>

869
01:07:41,199 --> 01:07:44,679
<i>I'll do anything in this God almighty world</i>

870
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,599
<i>If you just let me follow you down</i>

871
01:08:01,159 --> 01:08:04,280
<i>Yes, I'd do anything</i>|<i>in this God almighty world</i>

872
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:07,079
<i>If you just let me follow you down</i>

873
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:12,280
To think that entertainers|always have to be happy and funny...

874
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:14,360
is kind of a shallow thing.

875
01:08:14,440 --> 01:08:18,560
In fact, I've often remembered|one of Bob's quotes is:

876
01:08:18,640 --> 01:08:21,840
"Happy? Anybody can be happy.|What's the purpose of that?"

877
01:08:23,880 --> 01:08:27,239
The original Mexican name was|<i>La Feria de las Flores...</i>

878
01:08:28,399 --> 01:08:30,119
The Festival of Flowers.

879
01:08:42,000 --> 01:08:45,119
<i>The moment I became acquainted</i>|<i>with old songs...</i>

880
01:08:45,239 --> 01:08:47,840
<i>I realized people</i>|<i>were always changing them.</i>

881
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:56,359
<i>Think of it as an age-old process.</i>|<i>It's been going on for thousands of years.</i>

882
01:08:56,479 --> 01:09:00,800
People take old songs,|change them a little...

883
01:09:01,359 --> 01:09:05,640
add to them, adapt them for new people.|It happens in every other field.

884
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:08,359
Lawyers change old laws to fit new citizens.

885
01:09:09,119 --> 01:09:13,439
<i>So I'm one in this long chain</i>|<i>and so are millions of other musicians.</i>

886
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:17,199
<i>And Woody stepped right in that.</i>|<i>He was always making up verses...</i>

887
01:09:17,319 --> 01:09:19,680
<i>songs about real life,</i>|<i>real people, real events.</i>

888
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,000
<i>The idea is that you make up</i>|<i>a song about something real...</i>

889
01:09:23,279 --> 01:09:24,800
<i>don't expect that it'll ever make any money.</i>

890
01:09:25,039 --> 01:09:29,439
It may never be heard by more than a few|dozen people, but who knows? Who knows?

891
01:09:31,319 --> 01:09:33,920
And I look upon us all as Woody's children.

892
01:09:34,039 --> 01:09:36,399
<i>Bob Dylan is... Well, you must be</i>|<i>20 years old now, I assume.</i>

893
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,520
<i>Yeah, I must be 20.</i>

894
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:41,840
- <i>Are you?</i>|- <i>Yeah, I'm 20.</i>

895
01:09:41,960 --> 01:09:44,680
<i>Tell me about the songs that</i>|<i>you've written yourself that you sing.</i>

896
01:09:44,760 --> 01:09:46,800
<i>I don't claim to call them</i>|<i>folk songs or anything.</i>

897
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:48,319
<i>I just call them contemporary songs.</i>

898
01:09:48,399 --> 01:09:50,760
<i>Come you ladies and you gentlemen,</i>|<i>a- listen to my song</i>

899
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:52,880
<i>Sing it to you right,</i>|<i>but you might think it's wrong</i>

900
01:09:53,000 --> 01:09:54,720
<i>Just a little glimpse of a story I'll tell</i>

901
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:57,079
<i>'Bout an East Coast city</i>|<i>that you all know well</i>

902
01:09:57,159 --> 01:09:59,159
<i>It's hard times from the country</i>

903
01:09:59,239 --> 01:10:01,039
<i>Livin' down in New York town</i>

904
01:10:01,159 --> 01:10:04,159
<i>Come you ladies and you gentlemen,</i>|<i>listen to my song</i>

905
01:10:04,279 --> 01:10:07,000
<i>The traditional songs gave us ideas...</i>

906
01:10:07,079 --> 01:10:10,560
and attitudes about life|that you could borrow from...

907
01:10:10,680 --> 01:10:12,199
that you could build your songs on.

908
01:10:12,319 --> 01:10:15,920
<i>I will not go down under the ground</i>

909
01:10:17,159 --> 01:10:20,880
<i>'Cause somebody tells me</i>|<i>that death's comin' round</i>

910
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:22,600
<i>I wrote them anywhere I was.</i>

911
01:10:22,720 --> 01:10:26,399
You could write them on the subway|or in a caf� or wherever.

912
01:10:26,800 --> 01:10:29,680
You could write them|talking to somebody else...

913
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:32,520
and be scribbling down a song.

914
01:10:32,640 --> 01:10:35,880
<i>Let me die in my footsteps</i>

915
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:40,199
<i>Before I go down under the ground</i>

916
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:45,159
The first time I think I ever saw him|perform a topical song, he was singing...

917
01:10:45,279 --> 01:10:49,079
"Let me die with my boots on,|before I go under the ground."

918
01:10:49,159 --> 01:10:51,399
And that was a real feeling|in New York at that time.

919
01:10:51,479 --> 01:10:53,159
<i>People were building</i>|<i>bomb shelters everywhere...</i>

920
01:10:53,279 --> 01:10:56,119
<i>and that we'll live out our lives</i>|<i>in preparation for that kind of crap.</i>

921
01:10:56,199 --> 01:10:58,239
<i>And here we were</i>|<i>in the middle of Greenwich Village...</i>

922
01:10:58,359 --> 01:11:00,920
like a little pus pimple|in the middle of this huge society...

923
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:02,760
saying, "This has gotta go.

924
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:05,960
"We don't... I don't agree with that.|I'm not gonna live my life that way."

925
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:18,000
<i>No more auction block for me</i>

926
01:11:19,079 --> 01:11:23,079
<i>I was working at CORE</i>|<i>and that was an incredible time.</i>

927
01:11:23,199 --> 01:11:25,359
<i>A call would come in,</i>|<i>and people would say, "Oh, my God...</i>

928
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:28,760
<i>"so-and-so was beaten to a pulp</i>|<i>and so-and-so's in the hospital. "</i>

929
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:31,520
These were traumatic times to live through.

930
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:35,079
And just the way I felt|was the insane... It was insane.

931
01:11:35,199 --> 01:11:37,279
Why should this be happening?

932
01:11:37,359 --> 01:11:41,159
And I'm sure Bob had that same thing.|You just can't live through this.

933
01:11:41,279 --> 01:11:43,920
You live in your own little world|and your own interests...

934
01:11:44,039 --> 01:11:45,800
but the outer world is definitely part of it.

935
01:11:46,199 --> 01:11:50,239
<i>How many roads must a man walk down</i>

936
01:11:51,239 --> 01:11:54,479
<i>before you call him a man?</i>

937
01:11:55,600 --> 01:12:00,199
<i>Yes, and how many seas</i>|<i>must a white dove sail</i>

938
01:12:01,319 --> 01:12:04,520
<i>before she sleeps in the sand?</i>

939
01:12:05,720 --> 01:12:10,279
<i>Yes, and how many times</i>|<i>must the cannonballs fly</i>

940
01:12:11,439 --> 01:12:14,840
<i>before they're forever banned?</i>

941
01:12:16,119 --> 01:12:20,560
<i>The answer, my friend,</i>|<i>is blowin' in the wind</i>

942
01:12:21,199 --> 01:12:24,359
<i>The answer is blowin' in the wind</i>

943
01:12:25,479 --> 01:12:29,520
<i>I didn't really know if that song</i>|<i>was good or bad or... It felt right.</i>

944
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:32,800
But I didn't really know...

945
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:36,560
that it had any kind of|anthemic quality or anything.

946
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:41,119
<i>How many years must a mountain exist</i>

947
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:44,840
<i>before it is washed to the sea?</i>

948
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,479
<i>I wrote the songs to perform the songs.</i>

949
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:51,359
And I needed to sing, like, in that language.

950
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:56,159
Which is a language|that I hadn't heard before.

951
01:12:56,239 --> 01:13:00,279
<i>The answer, my friend, is blowin' in the</i>|<i>wind</i>

952
01:13:01,159 --> 01:13:04,680
<i>The answer is blowin' in the wind</i>

953
01:13:09,119 --> 01:13:11,119
<i>How could he write.</i>;

954
01:13:12,039 --> 01:13:15,720
"How many roads must a man walk down|before you call him a man?"

955
01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:18,079
This is what my father went through.

956
01:13:18,159 --> 01:13:21,239
He was the one|who wasn't called a man, you know.

957
01:13:22,479 --> 01:13:24,239
So, where is he coming from?

958
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:27,520
<i>White people don't have hard times.</i>

959
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:30,960
<i>This was my thinking back then,</i>|<i>because I was a kid, too.</i>

960
01:13:31,199 --> 01:13:34,319
What he was writing was inspirational...

961
01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:37,119
you know, they were inspirational songs.

962
01:13:37,199 --> 01:13:41,079
And they would inspire.|It's the same as gospel.

963
01:13:41,159 --> 01:13:42,640
He was writing truth.

964
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,119
By writing good songs...

965
01:13:45,199 --> 01:13:49,760
and writing about contemporary ideas|in traditional forms, which I understood.

966
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:53,439
And made it like was written today...

967
01:13:53,560 --> 01:13:56,279
but it sounded like it could have been|written 200 years ago, also.

968
01:13:56,359 --> 01:13:59,119
It sounded current and old|at the same time.

969
01:13:59,520 --> 01:14:04,159
So it wasn't just like singing songs|the way Pete Seeger would sing it...

970
01:14:04,239 --> 01:14:06,760
you know, 'cause it's important|that you sing these songs.

971
01:14:06,880 --> 01:14:09,920
He sang songs that affected us.

972
01:14:10,039 --> 01:14:13,680
<i>Well, it ain't no use to sit</i>|<i>and wonder why, babe</i>

973
01:14:15,359 --> 01:14:17,479
<i>lf'n you don't know by now</i>

974
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:22,359
<i>And it ain't no use to sit</i>|<i>and wonder why, babe</i>

975
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:26,319
<i>lt'll never do, somehow</i>

976
01:14:27,119 --> 01:14:31,159
<i>When your rooster crows</i>|<i>at the break of dawn</i>

977
01:14:32,119 --> 01:14:35,399
<i>Look out your window and I'll be gone</i>

978
01:14:36,119 --> 01:14:39,399
<i>You're the reason I'm travelin' on</i>

979
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:42,880
<i>But don't think twice, it's all right</i>

980
01:14:47,920 --> 01:14:52,000
Neither one of us had a fixed place to live,|we were both a bit nomadic.

981
01:14:52,119 --> 01:14:56,840
So we kind of had|this private little existence, in a way.

982
01:14:58,720 --> 01:15:01,560
<i>I am leading a quiet life</i>|<i>on Lower East Broadway</i>

983
01:15:01,640 --> 01:15:04,520
<i>I was an American</i>|<i>I am an American boy</i>

984
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:08,560
<i>I read</i> The American Boy <i>magazine</i>|<i>and became a Boy Scout in the suburbs</i>

985
01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:12,680
<i>I thought I was Tom Sawyer,</i>|<i>catching crayfish in the Bronx River</i>

986
01:15:12,800 --> 01:15:14,600
<i>and imagining the Mississippi</i>

987
01:15:14,720 --> 01:15:18,119
<i>I had a baseball mitt</i>|<i>and an American Flyer bike</i>

988
01:15:18,239 --> 01:15:19,840
<i>Everything was meshed up at that time.</i>

989
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:23,479
<i>Everything was like just all in like a blender.</i>

990
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:26,560
<i>Everyone was interested</i>|<i>in whatever was going on.</i>

991
01:15:26,640 --> 01:15:29,720
I stayed at a lot of people's houses|which had poetry books...

992
01:15:29,800 --> 01:15:31,359
and poetry volumes...

993
01:15:31,439 --> 01:15:34,399
and I'd read what I found...

994
01:15:34,800 --> 01:15:37,800
I found Verlaine poems or Rimbaud...

995
01:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,039
you know, "Drunken Boat," <i>Illuminations.</i>

996
01:15:40,159 --> 01:15:43,720
Whether it was these wild and crazy poets|that were getting up on stage...

997
01:15:43,840 --> 01:15:47,359
or whether it was a musician|playing some riff in a jazz club...

998
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:50,399
or some bluegrass guy,|some old roots music...

999
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:55,039
it filters through you, you speak them when|they come out verbally and you play them.

1000
01:15:55,119 --> 01:15:59,520
<i>We were doing things totally instinctively.</i>|<i>It was an instinctive awakening.</i>

1001
01:15:59,760 --> 01:16:03,079
<i>Lightning strikes every once in a while,</i>|<i>in a different place.</i>

1002
01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:04,960
Nobody knows why.

1003
01:16:05,039 --> 01:16:07,319
The night of the Cuban Missile Crisis...

1004
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:11,520
the general feeling was, the world|was gonna end or something like that.

1005
01:16:11,600 --> 01:16:12,800
<i>I mean, it's quite heavy.</i>

1006
01:16:12,840 --> 01:16:15,520
I walked into The Gaslight|and Bob was there.

1007
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:18,439
Just a few people listening to him sing.

1008
01:16:18,560 --> 01:16:21,119
He said, "Why don't you come up,|we'll sing some songs together.

1009
01:16:21,239 --> 01:16:25,119
<i>"Let's do that old Carter Family song.</i>;|You're Gonna Miss Me When I'm Gone."

1010
01:16:25,199 --> 01:16:28,640
I was playing the nice Carter Family thing,|and we're singing.

1011
01:16:28,720 --> 01:16:31,720
And I'm thinking,|"Who's gonna miss us when we're gone?

1012
01:16:31,840 --> 01:16:33,760
"We're all gonna be gone, you know.

1013
01:16:35,239 --> 01:16:36,479
"What the hell is this?"

1014
01:16:36,760 --> 01:16:40,479
<i>Oh, where have you been,</i>|<i>my blue-eyed son?</i>

1015
01:16:43,359 --> 01:16:46,920
<i>And where have you been,</i>|<i>my darling young one?</i>

1016
01:16:49,600 --> 01:16:53,600
<i>I've stumbled on the side</i>|<i>of twelve misty mountains.</i>

1017
01:16:56,079 --> 01:17:00,039
<i>I've walked and I crawled</i>|<i>on six crooked highways</i>

1018
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:06,199
<i>I've stepped in the middle</i>|<i>of seven sad forests</i>

1019
01:17:08,920 --> 01:17:12,680
<i>I've been out in front</i>|<i>of a dozen dead oceans</i>

1020
01:17:15,239 --> 01:17:19,520
<i>I've been ten thousand miles</i>|<i>in the mouth of a graveyard</i>

1021
01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:25,119
<i>And it's a hard, it's a hard, it's a hard</i>

1022
01:17:26,960 --> 01:17:28,800
<i>it's a hard</i>

1023
01:17:28,880 --> 01:17:33,479
<i>It's a hard rain's a-gonna fall.</i>

1024
01:17:35,920 --> 01:17:39,640
When I got back from India,|and got to the West Coast...

1025
01:17:39,720 --> 01:17:41,760
there was a poet, Charlie Plymell...

1026
01:17:43,880 --> 01:17:45,920
at a party in Bolinas...

1027
01:17:46,159 --> 01:17:48,800
played me a record|of this new young folk singer.

1028
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:51,000
And I heard...

1029
01:17:53,159 --> 01:17:55,000
<i>Hard Rain,</i> I think...

1030
01:17:57,359 --> 01:17:58,560
and wept.

1031
01:18:04,600 --> 01:18:08,560
'Cause it seemed that...

1032
01:18:10,600 --> 01:18:13,319
the torch had been passed...

1033
01:18:14,399 --> 01:18:16,079
to another generation.

1034
01:18:16,199 --> 01:18:20,079
From earlier bohemian or beat...

1035
01:18:20,920 --> 01:18:24,119
illumination and self-empowerment.

1036
01:18:26,159 --> 01:18:26,279
<i>And what'll you do now, my blue-eyed son?</i>

1037
01:18:26,279 --> 01:18:29,880
<i>And what'll you do now, my blue-eyed son?</i>

1038
01:18:30,439 --> 01:18:33,960
<i>And what'll you do now,</i>|<i>my darling young one?</i>

1039
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:40,319
<i>I'm a-going back out</i>|<i>before the rain starts a-fallin'</i>

1040
01:18:42,439 --> 01:18:46,520
<i>And I'll head for</i>|<i>the depths of the deepest dark forest</i>

1041
01:18:48,199 --> 01:18:52,479
<i>Where the people are many</i>|<i>and their hands are all empty</i>

1042
01:18:53,359 --> 01:18:57,640
<i>Where the pellets of poison</i>|<i>are flooding their waters</i>

1043
01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:02,720
<i>And I'll tell it, and think it,</i>|<i>and speak it, and breathe it</i>

1044
01:19:04,720 --> 01:19:08,800
<i>And reflect from the mountain</i>|<i>so all souls can see it</i>

1045
01:19:10,680 --> 01:19:14,920
<i>Then I'll stand on the ocean</i>|<i>until I start sinkin'</i>

1046
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:20,680
<i>But I'll know my song well</i>|<i>before I start singin'</i>

1047
01:19:21,239 --> 01:19:24,279
<i>And it's a hard, and it's a hard</i>

1048
01:19:24,359 --> 01:19:27,640
<i>And it's a hard, and it's a hard</i>

1049
01:19:27,920 --> 01:19:32,600
<i>And it's a hard rain's a-gonna fall</i>

1050
01:19:35,319 --> 01:19:38,399
A very famous saying|among the Tibetan Buddhists:

1051
01:19:39,399 --> 01:19:43,920
"If the student is not better than|the teacher, then the teacher is a failure."

1052
01:19:44,680 --> 01:19:49,239
And I was really knocked out|by the eloquence.

1053
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:53,760
Particularly, "I'll know my song well|before I start singing."

1054
01:19:54,079 --> 01:19:56,039
And, "Where all souls shall reflect it."

1055
01:19:56,159 --> 01:19:58,760
Or you know, "Stand on the mountain|where everybody can hear."

1056
01:19:58,880 --> 01:20:00,520
It's sort of this biblical prophecy.

1057
01:20:01,119 --> 01:20:05,000
<i>Poetry is words that are empowered</i>|<i>that make your hair stand on end...</i>

1058
01:20:05,239 --> 01:20:09,960
that you recognize instantly|as being some form of subjective truth...

1059
01:20:10,039 --> 01:20:14,000
that has an objective reality to it,|because somebody's realized it.

1060
01:20:14,399 --> 01:20:15,800
Then you call it poetry later.

1061
01:20:16,000 --> 01:20:18,600
<i>Take this one you sang,</i>|<i>this</i> Hard Rain's Gonna Fall.

1062
01:20:20,199 --> 01:20:23,000
<i>Even though it may have come out</i>|<i>of your feelings about atomic rain.</i>

1063
01:20:23,079 --> 01:20:27,279
<i>No, it wasn't atomic rain, no.</i>|<i>Somebody else thought that, too.</i>

1064
01:20:27,439 --> 01:20:29,159
- <i>It's not atomic rain.</i>|- <i>Go ahead.</i>

1065
01:20:29,279 --> 01:20:31,960
- <i>It's just a hard rain. It's not atomic rain.</i>|- <i>Hard rain.</i>

1066
01:20:32,039 --> 01:20:35,960
<i>All your songs are about more</i>|<i>than the actual event...</i>

1067
01:20:36,039 --> 01:20:37,720
<i>that may have caused it.</i>

1068
01:20:37,800 --> 01:20:39,920
- <i>You know what I mean?</i>|- <i>I'm not a topical songwriter.</i>

1069
01:20:40,039 --> 01:20:44,560
- <i>So you're not a topical songwriter.</i>|- <i>No, I don't really even like that word.</i>

1070
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:47,680
<i>I mean, it's not a song</i>|<i>about a certain event.</i>

1071
01:20:47,800 --> 01:20:49,880
- <i>Yeah, it's not, no.</i>|- <i>It's beyond that.</i>

1072
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:51,600
<i>The folk idiom is so widespread...</i>

1073
01:20:51,720 --> 01:20:54,439
<i>that you could take any part of it</i>|<i>and rework a song.</i>

1074
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:56,800
I never thought|I was breaking through anything.

1075
01:20:56,880 --> 01:20:59,640
I was just working with an existing form|that was there.

1076
01:20:59,720 --> 01:21:03,000
I was definitely not inventing anything|that hadn't been tried before...

1077
01:21:03,079 --> 01:21:05,119
some part of the picture, you know.

1078
01:21:26,600 --> 01:21:29,560
<i>You must learn to control yourselves.</i>|<i>Is this on?</i>

1079
01:21:32,000 --> 01:21:33,439
<i>Check. Richard?</i>

1080
01:21:36,399 --> 01:21:39,760
Is this mike on? Richard.

1081
01:21:48,680 --> 01:21:50,600
<i>You walk into the room</i>

1082
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:54,840
<i>With your pencil in your hand</i>

1083
01:21:56,239 --> 01:21:58,520
<i>You see somebody naked</i>

1084
01:22:00,199 --> 01:22:02,319
<i>You say, "Who is that, man?"</i>

1085
01:22:04,119 --> 01:22:06,560
<i>You try so hard</i>

1086
01:22:08,680 --> 01:22:10,760
<i>But you don't understand</i>

1087
01:22:11,840 --> 01:22:16,319
<i>Just what you'll say when you get home</i>

1088
01:22:18,640 --> 01:22:22,960
<i>Yes, because you know</i>|<i>something is happening here</i>

1089
01:22:23,520 --> 01:22:26,079
<i>But you don't know what it is</i>

1090
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:28,960
<i>Do you</i>

1091
01:22:29,920 --> 01:22:33,000
<i>Mr. Jones?</i>

1092
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:39,159
<i>You have many contacts</i>

1093
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:42,800
<i>Out there among the lumberjacks</i>

1094
01:22:44,119 --> 01:22:45,359
<i>To get you facts</i>

1095
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:48,760
<i>When someone attacks your imagination</i>

1096
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:55,159
<i>But nobody has any respect</i>

1097
01:22:56,720 --> 01:22:59,199
<i>Anyway, they just expect</i>

1098
01:23:00,880 --> 01:23:03,199
<i>You to take your check</i>

1099
01:23:03,279 --> 01:23:06,159
<i>And give them to tax-deductible</i>

1100
01:23:06,399 --> 01:23:10,199
<i>Charity organization</i>

1101
01:23:16,760 --> 01:23:21,159
Don't boo me anymore. Don't boo me.|God, that booing, I can't stand it.

1102
01:23:21,600 --> 01:23:24,159
Oh, my God.|It's hard to get in tune when they're booing.

1103
01:23:24,239 --> 01:23:26,520
Yeah, I can't get in tune at all|when they're booing.

1104
01:23:26,600 --> 01:23:30,880
I can't hear anything.|I don't even want to get in tune.

1105
01:23:33,680 --> 01:23:36,800
When they yell|in this weird nasal tone from here.

1106
01:23:38,439 --> 01:23:42,399
Jesus, you know, I don't understand|how can they buy the tickets up so fast.

1107
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:46,600
- I mean, you know. Let's get that light off.|- Turn the light off.

1108
01:23:49,199 --> 01:23:51,439
<i>Bobby Dylan, CBS label, brand new one...</i>

1109
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:54,199
<i>in the Caroline Countdown of Sound,</i>|<i>lying at number 18.</i>

1110
01:23:54,279 --> 01:23:57,159
Let's Go and Get Stoned.|<i>Not this time of the day, surely.</i>

1111
01:24:01,159 --> 01:24:05,079
<i>Well, they'll stone ya</i>|<i>when you're trying to be so good</i>

1112
01:24:06,479 --> 01:24:10,079
<i>They'll stone ya just a-like</i>|<i>they said they would</i>

1113
01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:14,399
<i>They'll stone ya</i>|<i>when you're tryin' to go home</i>

1114
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:19,479
<i>They'll stone ya when you're there all alone</i>

1115
01:24:20,239 --> 01:24:24,079
<i>But I would not feel so all alone</i>

1116
01:24:25,239 --> 01:24:28,800
<i>Everybody must get stoned</i>

1117
01:24:28,920 --> 01:24:31,239
Dylan's first albums did not sell.

1118
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:36,279
<i>I don't think we sold an album per store</i>|<i>in America. I think, 2,500.</i>

1119
01:24:36,359 --> 01:24:39,119
<i>Salespeople, you know, would say,</i>|<i>"This is Hammond's folly."</i>

1120
01:24:39,239 --> 01:24:42,600
<i>Since he cost so little to record,</i>|<i>let John have his folly.</i>

1121
01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:46,680
<i>On my second album, all of a sudden</i>|<i>people started to take notice...</i>

1122
01:24:46,760 --> 01:24:48,039
<i>that never noticed before.</i>

1123
01:24:48,159 --> 01:24:49,720
Grossman came into the picture|around there.

1124
01:24:50,279 --> 01:24:52,560
<i>He was kind of like</i>|<i>a Col. Tom Parker figure...</i>

1125
01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:55,640
<i>all immaculately dressed,</i>|<i>every time you see him.</i>

1126
01:24:55,720 --> 01:24:56,960
<i>You could smell him coming.</i>

1127
01:24:57,039 --> 01:25:00,039
Al Grossman was|the first successful folk manager...

1128
01:25:00,159 --> 01:25:02,439
who knew how to make money|out of his singers.

1129
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:04,399
<i>He would own the recording studio...</i>

1130
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:07,479
<i>he would own the music publishing</i>|<i>company, he would own Bob Dylan.</i>

1131
01:25:07,560 --> 01:25:08,960
<i>He would own Peter, Paul and Mary.</i>

1132
01:25:09,039 --> 01:25:11,720
He would sell a Bob Dylan song|to Peter, Paul and Mary...

1133
01:25:11,840 --> 01:25:15,560
who would sing on a recording in his studio,|which he was getting the rights.

1134
01:25:15,680 --> 01:25:18,439
So he would get a salami...|He had a salami technique going.

1135
01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:21,520
He would get a piece of the action|from six or seven different directions.

1136
01:25:21,960 --> 01:25:24,159
<i>He created Peter, Paul and Mary...</i>

1137
01:25:24,239 --> 01:25:28,960
<i>because he saw people really wanted</i>|<i>a fresh, young group like this...</i>

1138
01:25:29,039 --> 01:25:30,439
<i>that they could relate to.</i>

1139
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:34,279
He changed Paul's name to Paul, from Noel.

1140
01:25:34,800 --> 01:25:37,960
So it would have that biblical inference.|He was a genius.

1141
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:40,560
<i>I knew Mary Travers, you know,</i>|<i>of Peter, Paul and Mary.</i>

1142
01:25:40,680 --> 01:25:44,039
<i>I had known her when she was younger.</i>|<i>She used to sing in Washington Square Park.</i>

1143
01:25:44,159 --> 01:25:47,000
<i>And she was a nice person</i>|<i>and very lively teenager.</i>

1144
01:25:47,079 --> 01:25:49,199
One time, in the middle of winter...

1145
01:25:49,319 --> 01:25:52,479
and it was cold on MacDougal Street,|you know, like February...

1146
01:25:53,960 --> 01:25:56,840
I saw her, and I says,|"Where have you been, Mary?"

1147
01:25:56,960 --> 01:25:59,560
She says, "Well, I've been in Florida|for the last couple of..."

1148
01:25:59,680 --> 01:26:01,359
I don't know if it was weeks or months.

1149
01:26:01,479 --> 01:26:04,760
"A man named Albert Grossman|has put me together...

1150
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:06,680
"with some other guys|from the coffeehouses...

1151
01:26:06,760 --> 01:26:09,560
"and we're trying out a new group there.

1152
01:26:09,640 --> 01:26:10,920
"We're singing."

1153
01:26:11,000 --> 01:26:14,760
And I said, "You mean|you were in Florida all this time?

1154
01:26:14,840 --> 01:26:17,159
"Where's your tan?|Didn't you ever go out in the sun?"

1155
01:26:17,279 --> 01:26:19,600
She says, "No, Albert told me|I shouldn't go out in the sun.

1156
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:22,600
"That I was supposed to be|the pale, blonde, indoor type."

1157
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:26,079
And it really made my flesh creep,|to put it truthfully...

1158
01:26:26,199 --> 01:26:29,720
because I was shivering cold in New York...

1159
01:26:29,800 --> 01:26:31,760
and she had the chance|to get out in the sun...

1160
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:35,119
but that she was being manipulated,|that the whole thing had an image...

1161
01:26:35,239 --> 01:26:36,840
it had a look.

1162
01:26:36,960 --> 01:26:39,760
I just felt that this was a bad sign.

1163
01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:41,920
<i>I didn't feel that Albert manipulated Bob...</i>

1164
01:26:42,000 --> 01:26:45,079
<i>because I think Bob</i>|<i>was weirder than Albert...</i>

1165
01:26:45,159 --> 01:26:47,000
<i>so that he couldn't manipulate him.</i>

1166
01:26:47,079 --> 01:26:50,840
And by weird, I don't mean in a bad way|but I mean that he had enough games.

1167
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:54,600
Now, Bob was also a terrific opportunist...

1168
01:26:54,680 --> 01:26:58,439
so if someone gave him an opportunity|to do something, he could use it.

1169
01:26:58,560 --> 01:27:00,279
I don't know if Bob was a hustler.

1170
01:27:00,359 --> 01:27:02,880
I think he just knew what he wanted|and he could focus.

1171
01:27:03,159 --> 01:27:04,680
<i>He was very astute.</i>

1172
01:27:04,800 --> 01:27:09,119
He could pick out somebody who was|important. I mean, any musician would...

1173
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:11,000
but he was really good at it.

1174
01:27:11,399 --> 01:27:15,319
<i>Albert tells me one day he's gonna send</i>|<i>a guy over to see me named Bob Dylan.</i>

1175
01:27:17,000 --> 01:27:20,000
He's got a guitar, with some kind|of a contraption around his neck...

1176
01:27:20,119 --> 01:27:22,560
so that the harmonica is up to his mouth.

1177
01:27:22,640 --> 01:27:24,399
Now, believe me when I tell you...

1178
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:27,960
nobody had ever seen this|on Broadway before.

1179
01:27:28,039 --> 01:27:30,159
And he starts singing for me.

1180
01:27:31,239 --> 01:27:35,279
And one of the things that I pride myself on|is that I think I'm one of the few...

1181
01:27:35,399 --> 01:27:38,760
At that time, I may have been|the only one in the music business...

1182
01:27:38,880 --> 01:27:40,800
who listened to the words.

1183
01:27:41,600 --> 01:27:42,720
And when I heard...

1184
01:27:42,800 --> 01:27:47,199
"How many years must one man have|before he can hear people cry," I flipped.

1185
01:27:47,399 --> 01:27:50,359
I can't even remember what the songs were|that he played me that day...

1186
01:27:50,439 --> 01:27:52,399
but I said, "Okay, that's it. I want you."

1187
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:57,319
<i>How many roads must a man walk down</i>

1188
01:27:58,319 --> 01:28:02,119
<i>Before they call him a man</i>

1189
01:28:07,760 --> 01:28:11,359
<i>The music business per se</i>|<i>was dominated by music publishers.</i>

1190
01:28:13,279 --> 01:28:16,640
In those days, the song was important.|You would pick a song and work on it.

1191
01:28:25,319 --> 01:28:27,840
<i>Historically, whenever you see</i>|<i>Dylan mentioned in print...</i>

1192
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:31,319
<i>it's always John Hammond</i>|<i>who discovered Bob Dylan.</i>

1193
01:28:31,399 --> 01:28:34,720
I think the guy|who made Dylan popular was me...

1194
01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:36,359
if I say so myself.

1195
01:28:36,479 --> 01:28:39,359
I'm the one who started|to get his songs all over the place.

1196
01:28:39,439 --> 01:28:41,920
<i>We never had resistance</i>|<i>within the company to him.</i>

1197
01:28:42,000 --> 01:28:45,319
My boss, the old man, Herman Starr,|got on it right away.

1198
01:28:45,439 --> 01:28:47,840
Why? Because they smelled dollars,|that's why.

1199
01:28:49,560 --> 01:28:51,520
<i>I gotta sing you something</i>|<i>to tell you something.</i>

1200
01:28:51,640 --> 01:28:54,399
<i>It's called</i> Masters of War.

1201
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:01,000
<i>Come you masters of war</i>

1202
01:29:02,720 --> 01:29:04,920
<i>You that build the big guns</i>

1203
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:09,000
<i>You that build the death planes</i>

1204
01:29:10,800 --> 01:29:12,840
<i>You that build all the bombs</i>

1205
01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:16,880
<i>You that hide behind walls</i>

1206
01:29:18,680 --> 01:29:20,600
<i>You that hide behind desks</i>

1207
01:29:22,279 --> 01:29:25,880
<i>I just want you to know</i>|<i>I can see through your masks</i>

1208
01:29:28,359 --> 01:29:31,279
<i>And I hope that you die</i>

1209
01:29:31,880 --> 01:29:33,920
<i>And your death will come soon</i>

1210
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:37,920
<i>I'll follow your casket</i>

1211
01:29:39,479 --> 01:29:41,720
<i>All the pale afternoon</i>

1212
01:29:43,640 --> 01:29:45,920
<i>And I'll watch while you're lowered</i>

1213
01:29:47,279 --> 01:29:49,520
<i>Down to your deathbed</i>

1214
01:29:51,279 --> 01:29:55,960
<i>And I'll stand over your grave</i>|<i>till I'm sure that you're dead</i>

1215
01:29:56,039 --> 01:30:00,000
<i>I did a concert of his in Town Hall.</i>|<i>It might have been '63.</i>

1216
01:30:00,399 --> 01:30:02,640
And when the concert was over...

1217
01:30:03,359 --> 01:30:05,640
Bob called me over and he said:

1218
01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:09,359
"Is anybody in the stage door|waiting for me?"

1219
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:15,039
<i>The fact is that I do not blame</i>|<i>any artist for seeking fame...</i>

1220
01:30:15,159 --> 01:30:17,560
<i>which is in a sense, recognition.</i>

1221
01:30:17,640 --> 01:30:19,960
You want to know|that you've pleased an audience...

1222
01:30:20,039 --> 01:30:22,680
you want to know that|the audience is interested in you.

1223
01:30:23,199 --> 01:30:26,800
<i>He was, in his way, a dynamic performer.</i>

1224
01:30:27,159 --> 01:30:30,960
But I think mostly the material|that he was doing was so great...

1225
01:30:32,359 --> 01:30:34,079
that everybody responded to it.

1226
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:38,720
<i>Oxford Town, Oxford Town</i>|<i>Everybody's got their heads bowed down</i>

1227
01:30:38,840 --> 01:30:40,880
<i>The sun don't shine above the ground</i>

1228
01:30:41,000 --> 01:30:43,359
<i>Ain't a-goin' down to Oxford Town</i>

1229
01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:46,960
<i>The topical song movement</i>|<i>was a product of the Left.</i>

1230
01:30:52,039 --> 01:30:54,439
<i>And the Left, at that time,</i>|<i>would have been Pete Seeger...</i>

1231
01:30:54,560 --> 01:30:56,439
<i>and the Weavers, and Woody Guthrie.</i>

1232
01:30:56,520 --> 01:31:00,760
These people created material|based on topical situations.

1233
01:31:04,479 --> 01:31:07,199
<i>Pete Seeger, very tall, like a towering figure.</i>

1234
01:31:07,479 --> 01:31:09,079
I didn't realize he was a communist.

1235
01:31:09,159 --> 01:31:12,119
I really wasn't sure even|what a communist was.

1236
01:31:16,159 --> 01:31:19,640
If he was, it wouldn't have|mattered to me anyway.

1237
01:31:21,960 --> 01:31:24,399
I really didn't think about people|in those terms.

1238
01:31:24,840 --> 01:31:27,159
Bobby was not really a political person.

1239
01:31:28,800 --> 01:31:31,199
He was thought of...

1240
01:31:32,199 --> 01:31:33,479
as being...

1241
01:31:35,399 --> 01:31:38,199
a political person and a man of the Left.

1242
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:43,159
And in a general sort of way, yes, he was.|But he was not interested...

1243
01:31:44,039 --> 01:31:47,640
in the true nature of the Soviet Union|or any of that crap.

1244
01:31:49,000 --> 01:31:51,399
We thought he was hopelessly|politically naive.

1245
01:31:51,520 --> 01:31:55,800
But in retrospect, I think he may have been|more sophisticated than we were.

1246
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:10,479
<i>The folk music revival was postponed</i>|<i>by almost 10 years by the witch hunt.</i>

1247
01:32:10,600 --> 01:32:14,640
<i>I mean, when US Army publishes</i>|<i>pamphlets on how to spot a communist...</i>

1248
01:32:14,760 --> 01:32:18,239
<i>that have lines in them like,</i>|<i>"He will sometimes play the guitar"...</i>

1249
01:32:18,319 --> 01:32:20,960
that kind of thing had a very...

1250
01:32:22,319 --> 01:32:24,680
repressive and suppressive effect.

1251
01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:37,760
<i>The song</i> Goodnight Irene|<i>was all over the country.</i>

1252
01:32:37,840 --> 01:32:39,239
<i>You couldn't escape that song...</i>

1253
01:32:39,319 --> 01:32:42,279
<i>in the United States of America,</i>|<i>in the summer of 1950.</i>

1254
01:32:42,399 --> 01:32:46,560
<i>Right then, the very moment that</i> Irene|<i>was at the top of the Top 40...</i>

1255
01:32:46,640 --> 01:32:49,079
a bunch of blacklisters|probably said to themselves:

1256
01:32:49,159 --> 01:32:52,560
"How did we let these commie|so-and-so's slip through our fingers?"

1257
01:32:52,960 --> 01:32:56,680
<i>They started out to see that we were</i>|<i>blacklisted, and about two years later...</i>

1258
01:32:56,760 --> 01:32:59,840
instead of singing in the Waldorf-Astoria,|or Ciro's in Hollywood...

1259
01:33:01,199 --> 01:33:04,359
we were singing in Daffy's Bar and Grill|on the outskirts of Cleveland...

1260
01:33:04,479 --> 01:33:07,159
and decided to take a sabbatical.

1261
01:33:07,800 --> 01:33:09,920
Lee says, it turned|into a Mond-ical and a Tuesd-ical.

1262
01:33:11,399 --> 01:33:14,079
<i>By the time McCarthy,</i>|<i>I think, started to wane...</i>

1263
01:33:14,159 --> 01:33:16,479
the folk music thing started to come up.

1264
01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:21,119
<i>I say it's in the interest of every human</i>|<i>being in the United States of America...</i>

1265
01:33:21,239 --> 01:33:23,880
<i>to get some good senators</i>|<i>out of Mississippi for a change.</i>

1266
01:33:24,000 --> 01:33:26,279
<i>And you can do it,</i>|<i>and you will do it soon, I know.</i>

1267
01:33:55,680 --> 01:33:58,439
<i>I got him to go with</i>|<i>Pete and Theodore Bikel...</i>

1268
01:33:58,560 --> 01:34:00,600
as they were both going down to the South.

1269
01:34:00,680 --> 01:34:00,960
<i>The day Medgar Evers</i>|<i>was buried from the bullet he caught</i>

1270
01:34:00,960 --> 01:34:05,279
<i>The day Medgar Evers</i>|<i>was buried from the bullet he caught</i>

1271
01:34:06,159 --> 01:34:10,720
<i>And I encouraged him to go with them</i>|<i>and he did, as part of an education.</i>

1272
01:34:11,199 --> 01:34:14,239
The Civil Rights Movement|was in full swing...

1273
01:34:14,640 --> 01:34:16,920
<i>and there was a big field</i>|<i>outside Greenwood...</i>

1274
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:18,560
<i>with several hundred people.</i>

1275
01:34:18,960 --> 01:34:23,079
<i>I heard some speechifying there</i>|<i>that I'll never forget in all my life.</i>

1276
01:34:23,199 --> 01:34:27,680
And I remember Bob singing a song|which really caused people to think.

1277
01:34:28,199 --> 01:34:30,199
<i>He's Only a Pawn in The Game.</i>

1278
01:34:31,399 --> 01:34:34,279
He was singing about the man|who killed Medgar Evers.

1279
01:34:34,800 --> 01:34:38,399
<i>In other words,</i>|<i>don't just think of this one man...</i>

1280
01:34:38,479 --> 01:34:41,760
<i>who did this murder,</i>|<i>but think of the whole situation.</i>

1281
01:34:42,199 --> 01:34:44,640
To be on the side of people|who are struggling for something...

1282
01:34:44,760 --> 01:34:47,199
doesn't necessarily mean|you are being political.

1283
01:34:47,359 --> 01:34:50,720
<i>Oh, my name it ain't nothin'</i>

1284
01:34:51,039 --> 01:34:53,399
<i>My age it means less</i>

1285
01:34:54,359 --> 01:34:57,760
<i>The country I come from</i>

1286
01:34:57,840 --> 01:35:00,119
<i>Is called the Midwest</i>

1287
01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:04,520
<i>I was taught and brought up there</i>

1288
01:35:04,640 --> 01:35:06,840
<i>The laws to abide</i>

1289
01:35:07,880 --> 01:35:11,119
<i>And that the land that I live in</i>

1290
01:35:11,239 --> 01:35:13,560
<i>Has God on its side</i>

1291
01:35:14,159 --> 01:35:17,079
<i>I would say that Bob was gifted,</i>|<i>and it was flowering.</i>

1292
01:35:17,159 --> 01:35:20,399
<i>He had a great desire to change the world.</i>

1293
01:35:20,520 --> 01:35:22,359
We even talked about it.

1294
01:35:22,439 --> 01:35:24,520
We thought that segregation|wasn't gonna last...

1295
01:35:24,640 --> 01:35:26,920
<i>and that we were gonna have</i>|<i>something to do with ending it.</i>

1296
01:35:27,039 --> 01:35:28,760
<i>We really believed</i>|<i>we were gonna have a part...</i>

1297
01:35:28,840 --> 01:35:31,279
<i>as songwriters in changing the world.</i>

1298
01:35:49,000 --> 01:35:53,119
<i>I had first laid eyes on Bob in Gerde's Folk</i>|<i>City.</i>

1299
01:35:53,479 --> 01:35:54,720
<i>I had been told about him.</i>

1300
01:35:55,079 --> 01:35:59,000
"This guy's a genius|and he writes these incredible songs...

1301
01:35:59,079 --> 01:36:02,399
"and he admires Woody Guthrie,"|and all this stuff.

1302
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:04,800
I was very dubious, you know...

1303
01:36:04,880 --> 01:36:08,079
when people raved|about somebody other than myself.

1304
01:36:08,199 --> 01:36:10,079
But I went, and sure enough...

1305
01:36:10,159 --> 01:36:12,079
he was everything|that they had said he was.

1306
01:36:12,199 --> 01:36:15,680
<i>We both had our baby fat. That's what</i>|<i>I think of when I look at the early pictures.</i>

1307
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:18,560
Smooth skin, baby fat.|We were really young.

1308
01:36:18,920 --> 01:36:20,560
<i>Bob looked like a ragamuffin.</i>

1309
01:36:20,680 --> 01:36:23,159
<i>Probably one of the things</i>|<i>I found so appealing about him.</i>

1310
01:36:23,239 --> 01:36:24,800
<i>He would bring out the mother instinct...</i>

1311
01:36:24,920 --> 01:36:27,520
in a woman who thought|her mother instinct was dead.

1312
01:36:28,000 --> 01:36:32,479
<i>He came out and stayed with me</i>|<i>in a beautiful house, in Carmel Valley.</i>

1313
01:36:32,840 --> 01:36:34,039
<i>Bob liked to write there.</i>

1314
01:36:34,119 --> 01:36:37,000
<i>And he would just stand,</i>|<i>tapping away at that typewriter.</i>

1315
01:36:37,119 --> 01:36:39,880
<i>He would always say,</i>|<i>"What do you think of this?"</i>

1316
01:36:39,960 --> 01:36:43,359
And I wouldn't understand the thing at all,|but I loved it.

1317
01:36:44,840 --> 01:36:47,800
So I went, "Okay, I'm gonna figure|this one out." So I read through it.

1318
01:36:47,880 --> 01:36:51,680
And I gave back my interpretation|of what I thought it was about.

1319
01:36:51,800 --> 01:36:53,359
He said, "That's pretty fucking good."

1320
01:36:53,479 --> 01:36:55,319
He would say, "See now,|a bunch of years from now...

1321
01:36:55,399 --> 01:36:56,760
"all these people, all these assholes...

1322
01:36:56,840 --> 01:36:58,560
"are gonna be writing|about all the shit I write.

1323
01:36:58,640 --> 01:37:02,239
"I don't know where the fuck it comes from.|I don't know what the fuck it's about.

1324
01:37:02,319 --> 01:37:04,680
"And they're gonna write what it's about."

1325
01:37:04,840 --> 01:37:06,640
<i>Oh, the time will come up</i>

1326
01:37:06,760 --> 01:37:08,800
<i>When the winds will stop</i>

1327
01:37:08,920 --> 01:37:12,079
<i>And the breeze will cease to be breathin'</i>

1328
01:37:13,039 --> 01:37:15,039
<i>Like the stillness in the wind</i>

1329
01:37:15,119 --> 01:37:17,159
<i>Before the hurricane begins</i>

1330
01:37:17,279 --> 01:37:20,039
<i>The hour that the ship comes in</i>

1331
01:37:21,159 --> 01:37:23,119
<i>And the sea will split</i>

1332
01:37:23,239 --> 01:37:25,119
<i>And the ships will hit</i>

1333
01:37:25,239 --> 01:37:28,479
<i>And the sands on the shoreline</i>|<i>will be shaking</i>

1334
01:37:28,560 --> 01:37:30,920
<i>Bob would write.</i>|<i>Just write and write and write.</i>

1335
01:37:31,039 --> 01:37:33,680
<i>And one time, we pulled into someplace...</i>

1336
01:37:33,800 --> 01:37:37,039
and I was okay by then.|Bare feet or not, I was famous.

1337
01:37:37,920 --> 01:37:40,039
But this scruffy-looking guy I had with me...

1338
01:37:40,159 --> 01:37:42,359
and the people behind the desk|were having none of it...

1339
01:37:42,439 --> 01:37:44,960
and they said they didn't have a room.

1340
01:37:45,680 --> 01:37:47,560
And now, of course, I was livid...

1341
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:51,000
and pulled all my punches,|and got him a room.

1342
01:37:52,680 --> 01:37:56,399
And he wrote a song|that just was devastating:

1343
01:37:56,520 --> 01:37:58,159
<i>The Hour The Ship Comes In.</i>

1344
01:37:58,279 --> 01:37:59,840
And I could see him hanging them all.

1345
01:37:59,960 --> 01:38:03,920
He'd never sort of fess up to that sort of|thing, but that's what it seemed like to me.

1346
01:38:04,039 --> 01:38:06,520
Working out whatever feelings...

1347
01:38:07,680 --> 01:38:10,560
he might have had|about not being given a room...

1348
01:38:10,680 --> 01:38:13,000
in a brilliant song, in one night.

1349
01:38:13,079 --> 01:38:15,159
<i>And they'll raise their hands</i>

1350
01:38:15,239 --> 01:38:17,119
<i>Sayin' we'll meet all your demands</i>

1351
01:38:17,199 --> 01:38:20,520
<i>There'll be a shout from the bow,</i>|<i>"Your days are numbered"</i>

1352
01:38:21,199 --> 01:38:23,199
<i>And like Pharaoh's tribe</i>

1353
01:38:23,279 --> 01:38:25,000
<i>They'll be drownded in the tide</i>

1354
01:38:25,119 --> 01:38:29,600
<i>And like Goliath, they'll be conquered</i>

1355
01:38:45,880 --> 01:38:47,760
<i>You had country folks and city folks there.</i>

1356
01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:50,640
<i>We purposely tried to mix it up at Newport.</i>

1357
01:39:15,239 --> 01:39:16,640
<i>There was Johnny Cash.</i>

1358
01:39:20,680 --> 01:39:24,000
And then you had O.J. Abbott|singing some of the ballads he knew...

1359
01:39:24,119 --> 01:39:26,760
as a young man working|in the lumber camps.

1360
01:39:26,880 --> 01:39:28,000
Right side by side.

1361
01:39:37,840 --> 01:39:41,680
There were 15,000 people,|and that seemed to me just immense.

1362
01:39:42,119 --> 01:39:46,600
Everyone was there who played folk music.|Old and new.

1363
01:39:47,039 --> 01:39:48,720
Sort of younger people, too.

1364
01:39:54,199 --> 01:39:58,920
We kind of bonded in a way,|music-wise, you know...

1365
01:39:59,239 --> 01:40:01,359
what we were singing|and what he was writing.

1366
01:40:01,680 --> 01:40:05,439
<i>A bullet from the back of a bush</i>

1367
01:40:06,000 --> 01:40:08,159
<i>Took Medgar Evers's blood</i>

1368
01:40:10,279 --> 01:40:13,960
<i>A finger fired the trigger to his name</i>

1369
01:40:16,000 --> 01:40:20,119
<i>A handle hid out in the dark</i>

1370
01:40:20,199 --> 01:40:22,199
<i>The hand set the spark</i>

1371
01:40:22,279 --> 01:40:24,239
<i>Two eyes took the aim</i>

1372
01:40:25,479 --> 01:40:27,680
<i>Behind a man's brain</i>

1373
01:40:28,720 --> 01:40:30,760
<i>But he can't be blamed</i>

1374
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:36,119
<i>He's only a pawn in their game</i>

1375
01:40:37,239 --> 01:40:40,319
<i>I was the only singer there probably</i>|<i>singing the songs that he'd written.</i>

1376
01:40:40,439 --> 01:40:42,760
<i>And most likely, two years earlier to that...</i>

1377
01:40:42,880 --> 01:40:45,640
<i>I wouldn't have been able</i>|<i>to get into Newport.</i>

1378
01:40:46,079 --> 01:40:49,560
<i>You got more than the blacks,</i>|<i>don't complain</i>

1379
01:40:50,520 --> 01:40:52,279
<i>You're better than them</i>

1380
01:40:52,359 --> 01:40:55,840
<i>You been born with white skin, they explain</i>

1381
01:40:56,560 --> 01:40:58,439
<i>It was quite a sensation.</i>

1382
01:40:59,479 --> 01:41:02,479
He was singing a lot of,|what they called then, protest songs.

1383
01:41:02,600 --> 01:41:05,479
I've always hated that designation.

1384
01:41:06,439 --> 01:41:09,560
And it was very much...

1385
01:41:10,600 --> 01:41:12,000
in the spirit of the time.

1386
01:41:12,560 --> 01:41:15,680
<i>Pete and the crowd</i>|<i>around</i> Broadside <i>magazine...</i>

1387
01:41:15,800 --> 01:41:18,119
<i>had fallen head over heels in love with him.</i>

1388
01:41:18,239 --> 01:41:22,720
<i>Today, Medgar Evers was buried</i>|<i>from the bullet he caught</i>

1389
01:41:26,600 --> 01:41:29,920
<i>They lowered him down as a king</i>

1390
01:41:32,720 --> 01:41:37,159
<i>But when the shadowy sun sets on the one</i>

1391
01:41:37,279 --> 01:41:39,239
<i>That fired the gun</i>

1392
01:41:39,359 --> 01:41:41,479
<i>He'll see by his grave</i>

1393
01:41:42,479 --> 01:41:44,680
<i>On the stone that remains</i>

1394
01:41:44,800 --> 01:41:46,920
<i>Carved next to his name</i>

1395
01:41:47,039 --> 01:41:49,319
<i>His epitaph plain</i>

1396
01:41:49,720 --> 01:41:54,279
<i>Only a pawn in their game</i>

1397
01:41:56,399 --> 01:41:59,159
<i>There was Woody Guthrie,</i>|<i>transition to Pete Seeger...</i>

1398
01:41:59,239 --> 01:42:01,359
<i>who carried on Woody's tradition.</i>

1399
01:42:01,479 --> 01:42:04,399
Now who was to carry on from Pete Seeger?

1400
01:42:05,319 --> 01:42:07,960
And in that spot really, came Bob Dylan.

1401
01:42:08,239 --> 01:42:11,439
<i>So we began to recognize that Bobby...</i>

1402
01:42:11,560 --> 01:42:14,880
<i>would be the continuation in that tradition.</i>

1403
01:42:15,000 --> 01:42:17,600
<i>I wrote this song. It tells a story...</i>

1404
01:42:20,880 --> 01:42:22,560
<i>if you like stories.</i>

1405
01:42:38,439 --> 01:42:41,640
- Maybe it doesn't do anything.|- Maybe it doesn't tell a story.

1406
01:42:43,520 --> 01:42:46,239
<i>It was a very, very exciting... I felt...</i>

1407
01:42:47,079 --> 01:42:48,680
<i>it was like, Bob was my pal.</i>

1408
01:42:48,800 --> 01:42:52,399
We were involved in the same thing. And|I knew he was gonna be a massive star...

1409
01:42:52,520 --> 01:42:54,039
and I liked that.

1410
01:43:05,640 --> 01:43:06,640
Let me say something?

1411
01:43:07,000 --> 01:43:10,239
<i>We just have to sing one, that's all.</i>|<i>That's the introduction.</i>

1412
01:43:13,319 --> 01:43:17,760
<i>Oh my name it is nothin'</i>

1413
01:43:18,520 --> 01:43:22,720
<i>My age it means less</i>

1414
01:43:23,279 --> 01:43:28,000
<i>The country I come from</i>

1415
01:43:28,199 --> 01:43:32,199
<i>Is called the Midwest</i>

1416
01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:37,239
<i>I was taught and brought up there</i>

1417
01:43:37,479 --> 01:43:41,640
<i>The laws to abide</i>

1418
01:43:41,760 --> 01:43:46,479
<i>And that the land that I live in</i>

1419
01:43:46,600 --> 01:43:51,199
<i>Has God on its side</i>

1420
01:43:52,680 --> 01:43:57,399
<i>Oh the history books tell it</i>

1421
01:43:57,520 --> 01:44:01,119
<i>They tell it so well</i>

1422
01:44:01,479 --> 01:44:06,199
<i>The cavalries charged</i>

1423
01:44:06,279 --> 01:44:10,600
<i>And the Indians fell</i>

1424
01:44:10,720 --> 01:44:15,119
<i>The cavalries charged</i>

1425
01:44:15,239 --> 01:44:19,560
<i>And the Indians died</i>

1426
01:44:19,680 --> 01:44:23,720
<i>Oh the country was young</i>

1427
01:44:24,199 --> 01:44:28,319
<i>With God on its side</i>

1428
01:44:30,039 --> 01:44:32,199
<i>I wrote a lot of songs</i>|<i>in a quick amount of time.</i>

1429
01:44:32,319 --> 01:44:33,840
<i>I could do that then...</i>

1430
01:44:34,079 --> 01:44:38,600
because the process was new to me.

1431
01:44:40,039 --> 01:44:41,600
I felt like...

1432
01:44:42,199 --> 01:44:45,720
I'd discovered something|no one else had ever discovered...

1433
01:44:46,359 --> 01:44:50,760
and I was in a sort of an arena artistically|that no one else had ever been in before...

1434
01:44:50,880 --> 01:44:53,600
ever, although I might|have been wrong about that.

1435
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:56,520
<i>One time ago a crazy dream came to me</i>

1436
01:44:56,640 --> 01:44:59,079
<i>I dreamt I was walkin' in World War Three</i>

1437
01:44:59,720 --> 01:45:02,000
<i>I went to the doctor the very next day</i>

1438
01:45:02,119 --> 01:45:03,880
<i>To see what kind of words he had to say</i>

1439
01:45:04,000 --> 01:45:05,600
<i>He said it was a bad dream</i>

1440
01:45:11,039 --> 01:45:15,520
<i>I was on top of this 12-foot station</i>|<i>and I had a long lens.</i>

1441
01:45:15,600 --> 01:45:18,039
I was looking at Bob Dylan|coming out on stage.

1442
01:45:18,119 --> 01:45:20,479
<i>Well, down the corner by the hot-dog stand</i>

1443
01:45:20,560 --> 01:45:21,840
<i>I seen another man</i>

1444
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:23,000
<i>I said, "Howdy, friend</i>

1445
01:45:23,079 --> 01:45:24,840
<i>"I guess there's just us two"</i>

1446
01:45:24,960 --> 01:45:27,399
<i>He screamed, and down the road he flew</i>

1447
01:45:28,039 --> 01:45:29,640
<i>Thought I was a communist</i>

1448
01:45:32,479 --> 01:45:36,159
<i>He was Charlie Chaplin.</i>|<i>He was Dylan Thomas.</i>

1449
01:45:36,640 --> 01:45:40,039
<i>He talked like Woody Guthrie.</i>|<i>He was constantly moving.</i>

1450
01:45:41,399 --> 01:45:44,399
<i>More time passed and now it seems</i>

1451
01:45:44,520 --> 01:45:46,560
<i>Everybody's having them dreams</i>

1452
01:45:46,680 --> 01:45:51,119
<i>Everybody sees theyself</i>|<i>walkin' around with nobody else</i>

1453
01:45:52,800 --> 01:45:56,279
<i>And all the people can be</i>|<i>half right some of the time</i>

1454
01:45:57,760 --> 01:46:00,560
<i>Some of the people can be</i>|<i>all right part of the time</i>

1455
01:46:01,199 --> 01:46:04,039
<i>But all the people can't be</i>|<i>all right all of the time</i>

1456
01:46:05,000 --> 01:46:06,720
<i>Abraham Lincoln said that</i>

1457
01:46:07,880 --> 01:46:10,439
<i>I'll let you be in my dream</i>|<i>if I can be in yours</i>

1458
01:46:10,560 --> 01:46:11,800
<i>I said that</i>

1459
01:46:13,199 --> 01:46:17,319
<i>In old Irish mythology,</i>|<i>they talk about the shape-changers.</i>

1460
01:46:17,800 --> 01:46:21,000
<i>He changed voices. He changed images.</i>

1461
01:46:21,800 --> 01:46:25,680
It wasn't necessary for him to be...

1462
01:46:25,800 --> 01:46:27,680
a definitive person.

1463
01:46:28,399 --> 01:46:30,119
He was a receiver.

1464
01:46:31,159 --> 01:46:33,000
He was possessed.

1465
01:46:33,520 --> 01:46:36,800
And he articulated...

1466
01:46:38,119 --> 01:46:41,600
what the rest of us wanted to say|but couldn't say.

1467
01:46:41,840 --> 01:46:41,960
<i>How many roads must a man walk down</i>

1468
01:46:41,960 --> 01:46:46,399
<i>How many roads must a man walk down</i>

1469
01:46:48,479 --> 01:46:52,800
<i>before you call him a man?</i>

1470
01:46:54,920 --> 01:46:59,479
<i>How many seas must a white dove sail</i>

1471
01:47:01,680 --> 01:47:06,119
<i>before she sleeps in the sand?</i>

1472
01:47:06,880 --> 01:47:09,119
<i>It's almost enough to make you...</i>

1473
01:47:09,239 --> 01:47:13,039
<i>believe in Jung's notion</i>|<i>of collective unconscious.</i>

1474
01:47:14,159 --> 01:47:17,119
<i>That if there is an American</i>|<i>collective unconscious...</i>

1475
01:47:17,239 --> 01:47:19,680
<i>if you could believe in something like that...</i>

1476
01:47:19,760 --> 01:47:22,119
that Bobby had somehow tapped into it.

1477
01:47:23,239 --> 01:47:25,359
And there were always...

1478
01:47:27,000 --> 01:47:29,479
these sometimes very faint resonances.

1479
01:47:34,520 --> 01:47:36,640
<i>In taking all the elements</i>|<i>that I've ever known...</i>

1480
01:47:36,720 --> 01:47:40,159
<i>to make wide-sweeping statements</i>|<i>which conveyed a feeling...</i>

1481
01:47:40,279 --> 01:47:43,560
<i>that was in the general essence</i>|<i>of the spirit of the times.</i>

1482
01:47:45,319 --> 01:47:47,359
<i>I think I managed to do that.</i>

1483
01:47:47,920 --> 01:47:51,199
I thought that I needed to press on...

1484
01:47:51,560 --> 01:47:54,560
<i>and get as far into it as I could.</i>

1485
01:47:55,000 --> 01:47:59,560
<i>Is blowin' in the wind</i>

1486
01:48:10,560 --> 01:48:15,039
<i>I would like to say that he has his finger</i>|<i>on the pulse of our generation.</i>

1487
01:48:16,119 --> 01:48:17,399
<i>Bob Dylan.</i>

1488
01:48:21,680 --> 01:48:25,319
<i>There will be singing through the night,</i>|<i>in the town of Newport.</i>

